#19 Design Your Life with Tyler Hilker

Transitioning in your career or just seeking ways to balance work and personal life? We discuss the challenges of decision-making in the fast-paced field of technology, the pursuit of new ideas, and how altering our goals can lead to unexpected results. We also explore the significance of prioritization and freedom in our lives when we live with intentionality.

Tyler Hilker's passion for design and craftsmanship takes us on a trip down memory lane to his childhood, where he shares his early interests and experiences that shaped his career. We also take a deep dive into his successful journey in the realm of design and technology consultancy. From the importance of asking "why" to understanding the unique needs of every client, Tyler provides invaluable insights that make for a captivating listen.

We conclude with a heartfelt conversation on staying grounded and finding wisdom from life experiences. Join us for this riveting episode where we trust you'll be inspired to design the life you want for yourself.

Guest Website: https://tylerhilker.com/
Guest Email: tyler@crema.us

Xero Shoes: https://xeroshoes.com/go/devin

A special thanks to Eggtc. Shawnee for sponsoring this episode!
https://eggtckc.com/eggtc-shawnee

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:04

Welcome to the possibility mindset podcast. I'm Devin Henderson, your host, and I believe this is something greater is always possible for you and for you, my man.

Speaker 2: 0:17

Me.

Speaker 1: 0:18

Yeah, you too, you're included in that it's fantastic. Absolutely. Yeah, this is Tyler everybody, and I'm excited to introduce my friend. You'll get to hear a lot about what he does and learn from his brilliant mind. Okay, but first and this is a first in terms of I've never done this yet on the podcast, I am promoting a product. Okay, I'm about to lift it up here, so get ready, I'm going to show it, let's see it.

Speaker 1: 0:39

You listeners, you'll have to go to YouTube to see it. Question for you though you're an adventurous guy. I mean you travel a lot. You take the family, you guys go to the Pacific Northwest, you go to Colorado. I'm guessing you do a lot of hiking.

Speaker 2: 0:49

We like hiking.

Speaker 1: 0:51

Yeah, and you camp out on the beach and all kinds of fun stuff. We like that. Okay, so question and all that. I'm leading you down a path here in case you can't tell yeah. So hike with me. Do you like to walk barefoot ever? Is that part of?

Speaker 2: 1:03

it, love it Absolutely.

Speaker 1: 1:03

Really Okay, yeah, okay, and I really didn't know that about you for sure. So what to you? What are the benefits of walking barefoot?

Speaker 2: 1:10

I love the, the honestly just the physical sensation of walking on grass or dirt, the freedom of not having shoes on. I used to joke that socks were the jumpsuits of the prisons of shoes. Ah, wow, Wow man, this was a long time ago.

Speaker 1: 1:29

I like that though.

Speaker 2: 1:30

I used to go barefoot a lot. I love sandals. I wear sandals 80% of the year. Okay, just because I don't like the constraints of shoes.

Speaker 1: 1:39

Yeah, yeah, okay, crazy, this wasn't planned, this was like his true answer that's true.

Speaker 1: 1:44

So I just happened to have the perfect guest on for this product. So you know the way that I see. You know we're born barefoot. I really believe we're meant to walk barefoot. It really, for me, like the health benefits too of what I've discovered is that it strengthens your muscles and your arches around your ankles. Since I've been walking barefoot, you know, I've seen a difference in my ankles and my knees, like I don't roll my ankles, I don't have, you know, any knee pain when I'm running.

Speaker 1: 2:09

When someone first told me about that whole born to run idea I was like, whatever, you can't run that far, you know, barefoot. The problem with it, even if you're on board with the whole walking barefoot thing, is that you just can't. You just don't want to walk barefoot. Sometimes when it's really cold or on, you know you don't want to walk over broken glass. Unless you're Bruce Willis and you are diehard, you're not going to do that. So so they have something for that. I'm not a doctor. This isn't medical advice. I'm just telling you about my experience here. These introducing the product, some kind of drum roll Tyler. There it is, boom Zero shoes. Look at that. I've been wearing these, this type of shoe, for two years now, this specific brand. Okay, this is what's known as a barefoot style shoe, and I don't know, if you know what, what the characteristics are of a barefoot style.

Speaker 2: 2:55

Describe them for me, yeah okay, I will.

Speaker 1: 2:57

Well, that was a good interviewer question. You're like, just keep talking. So it has a wide toe box, which is right here. Right, A lot of our shoes now kind of come to a point If you think of like a cowboy boot, that's like the extreme of it cramps your toes. Our toes are meant to splay right Out. Over time. People have a lot of foot problems because our feet come together. So now I sound like I'm trying to sound like a doctor. I'm not. I'm just telling you what I've learned and my experience. So it has a wide toe box.

Speaker 1: 3:26

Also, um has has a thin sole. So you can feel that like the sensation. Maybe you don't know, maybe you don't feel the grass exactly, but you can feel the texture that you're walking on grass or you can feel the massage of the of the gravel right. Um also has a flexible sole. The whole, the entire shoe, is flexible because our feet are meant to flex right, so to really work those muscles and get those stretches that we need to be healthy, uh, in our feet. I mean you need that flexibility.

Speaker 1: 3:53

The last thing, and probably the the biggest characteristic of it, and where the shoe gets its namesake, is the zero drop. Right, when you think of most like running shoes, you get a taller heel. You know it's got because we were just we've become heel strikers, right. So when we run, we hit that heel and our our heels are not meant to absorb shock, right? So really, we're supposed to be running on about the mid part of our foot. So this shoe, um, really encourages you to do that.

Speaker 1: 4:18

Now you do want to be mindful. You don't want to get in these shoes and heel strike like you used to, uh, cause there's no heel padding, right? So there is a little bit of a different way to learn. Uh, the great thing is, on the zero website, they have a lot of advice on how to do all that. So, so, this is the zero shoe. I'm pitching it, Um, I am now an affiliate member with them, so, um, you can go to the link, uh, down below in the description and that link, in case you're listening, you're driving and you want to remember for later. Zero shoescom slash go, slash, Devin.

Speaker 2: 4:48

Zero with an X.

Speaker 1: 4:49

Yeah, it is zero with an X, and I appreciate you pointing that out, tyler, because, uh, zero. As we learned from Marvelous Mark in a previous episode, it's easier to trademark things when you spell them wrong. I'm assuming that's why they did this, all right, so so, zero with an X, zero shoescom, slash, go, slash. Devin. Devin is D E V I? N for those of you who just met me. Uh. So, anyway, uh, with that, that, I would love that the zero is a sponsor of the show. So go on there, get an awesome pair, um, and we'd appreciate it.

Speaker 2: 5:18

So all right here it is zero shoes.

Speaker 1: 5:21

Tyler's going to go buy a pair right now. Pull up your phone. No, he's leaving. Yeah, he's going. They do have some storefronts, from what I hear, so um check them out, try them on. Check them out, try them on. Uh, the other sponsor we want to think is, of course, cedra Shawnee. Uh, and they did, you know, give us this space and they gave us breakfast today. So how are the eggs Benedict with hash browns? Delicious, as always, awesome. Have you eaten here before?

Speaker 2: 5:45

Oh, yeah, oh, really Okay Good.

Speaker 1: 5:47

A lot of my guests have it because they're just from the other part of town or whatever, so good deal man, this is our neighborhood.

Speaker 1: 5:51

That's awesome. This is where you come. Okay, very cool, um, if you, if you are listening, uh, just want to say, you know, to get the full experience to see the zero shoes that we were just holding up, um, go to YouTube at Devin Henderson speaker for that full experience. Remember to subscribe, like the episode, if indeed you do like it. Share it, um, also on Apple or Spotify, you know. Rate us, comment, let let us know what you think, especially after the content you're going to hear today. So, with that, tyler, let's jump in and tell them who you are. Okay, I mean, who is this handsome fella sitting across the table from me, right? Um, I, first of all, I, as I look at you, I'm I'm a little jealous of the beard.

Speaker 1: 6:28

Yours is just so full and so full of color, it's beard season, you know it is beard season, it's it's no shave November, so I'm kind of getting crazy with it. Do you ever ask yourself, at the end of November, am I going to shave or am I just going to let it keep?

Speaker 2: 6:42

going. Oh no, I always keep going. I go into April.

Speaker 1: 6:46

Oh, do you really? Wow? I've seen you with a bigger beard. I didn't know there was like there was a system to it.

Speaker 2: 6:50

Oh yeah, I mean in usually around October I decided, uh, it's time, and then I let it grow out through the winter because I love spending time outside, and it just makes it that much more tolerable. Yeah, yeah, nice man. And it's a beard in the summer, uh, when I'm on the lawn, when I'm working outside it, uh, it's just not nearly as comfortable, sure, but in the winter it's great.

Speaker 1: 7:12

In the winter, it's like you don't need a scarf, you don't need a buff, you just got a beard. Man, I love it. Okay, Awesome, all right. Well, who is this guy? Tyler Hilker is the VP of strategy at Kremma, uh, where he leads Kremma's strategy practice to help organizations understand, shape and execute their greatest opportunities for nearly two decades, nearly two decades, nearly two decades. Yeah, that's right, uh, but we just talked about this. I've been working for about two decades in my um, you know as an entrepreneur so crazy.

Speaker 1: 7:46

For nearly two decades, he served a very wide range of clients and industries with a collaborative, multidisciplinary and holistic design approach that focuses on creating remarkable impact.

Speaker 2: 8:01

It's a lot of words in that.

Speaker 1: 8:02

Well, that's, yeah, it is a lot of words. As I was reading them, I was thinking not just this is laborsome, but this is rich, collaborative, multidisciplinary, holistic. Um, and then remarkable, that's uh, that's great. So I want to hear more about that, especially the remarkable side. You know what? What makes it remarkable? What, what? How do we define remarkable? So, um, can I read the, the sentence that I took off your LinkedIn page about that? Okay, uh, this is one thing Tyler Tyler describes himself on LinkedIn from an early age. He says I've used technology to create experiences. While my grade school peers were saving Princess Peach, I was architecting residential floor plans on my parents' computer for fun, for fun, okay, so let me tell you how fun I am.

Speaker 1: 8:46

Well, it's funny because it shows me like when I was growing up it was old school Nintendo, so we were just saving the princess, we weren't saving Princess Peach. Now, is it the same, because I never went past, like I never got to super Nintendo. Is it the same princess? Was her name always Princess Peach? I think so, even originally.

Speaker 2: 9:01

I'm not a lore master, but yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 9:05

Anyway, I never remember calling her that so okay. But that's what we're here to talk about today. Is Nintendo, no, uh, okay. So so Tyler.

Speaker 1: 9:12

Tyler was a friend, Tyler and I used to meet with a couple of fellas that we know over coffee, and one thing I've just I always learned something from Tyler. I don't know if I've ever told you this, but you always taught me something. A lot of times when I'm talking to him, I take notes like we were over breakfast. You know, I got my phone out about five or six times. I'm like that's, that's brilliant, that's a great idea. He's always has ideas, but it never feels like let me tell you how to run your life in your business. It's like, hey, I'm reflecting, I just want to reflect this because it might, it might benefit you. So I remember one time you taught me about the law of diminishing returns and you drew he even drew me a graph, Right. So the designer and him was like let me show you. And ever since then I've been using the term and it's sometimes made me stop my workday early, with intention, because I think of that specifically, you know.

Speaker 1: 9:58

So, yeah, so so let's go back then. Let's start here. Let's take me back to the days where you were architecting floor plans on your parents' computer instead of saving the princess peach. What was going on inside that mind Is that is that kind of where it began for you.

Speaker 2: 10:11

Yeah, my dad. I remember my dad sketching out floor plans on graph paper, and so we did a lot of that too. And then my my neighbor.

Speaker 1: 10:20

Was he like an architect or no? No, no, just fun.

Speaker 2: 10:23

Yeah, no, that's that's what he enjoyed doing. Okay, and I kind of picked up on that and my, my neighbor kids, kids in my neighborhood, they had a tie, I remember when they got the Atari and playing on that. And then when they got the Nintendo the first Nintendo I didn't have any of those and so we had the graph paper and then eventually, when we got a computer, we got a computer Honestly, I think it was on my grandparents' computer before we had our own and again my dad had a floor plan program and he'd enjoyed playing around with that, and so I, that's kind of what I had to play with. I didn't have other games. I mean there's some, some of the the Lamer games that you see out there the computer or whatever, but it was.

Speaker 2: 11:05

That was the. I remember spending a lot of time in floor plan plus.

Speaker 1: 11:10

Yeah, it was called floor plan plus. That's hard to say floor plan plus. Yeah, it wasn't there.

Speaker 2: 11:16

It's just weird. It was a weird name and it wasn't. It wasn't a fancy application it. I don't. I have no idea why he chose that one, but I still think in the visuals that that program gave me.

Speaker 1: 11:29

So I'm just curious what did your dad do?

Speaker 2: 11:31

He worked in the ski industry when I was growing up, so he worked at a ski shop. Now he's a cabinet maker, okay, and I mean he's done a smattering of things.

Speaker 1: 11:41

So that floor plan plus thing, that literally was just like a side hobby for fun. That didn't really relate to his work. That's awesome, but look what it did for you, man.

Speaker 2: 11:48

Yeah, he would. He would build stuff around the house Like he built an addition on the side of a small addition. He would. He was he is a hundred percent crafts craftsman, okay, but he was not an architect in the capital A architect, okay.

Speaker 1: 12:03

But he'll build it, he'll get it done. He's a master builder. Yeah, kind of like the Lego type thing we're into Legos. Oh yeah, was that okay, that kind of came with the territory if you were doing floor plans. Okay, that's awesome, Okay, so so then you know where did it go from there? How did it grow into where you are today? What will that journey look like, from being a young boy to the amazing professional you are now?

Speaker 2: 12:23

I mean besides that? I mean I did a lot of sketching even in my early teen years and then, when it came time to think about what I was going to do in college, I liked the idea of being an architect, but I had this belief in high school that I was just bad at math and I'm not great at math, but I I believed that that would hold me back from being an architect.

Speaker 1: 12:46

And did someone tell you you're bad at math?

Speaker 2: 12:48

Oh yeah, my math teachers did.

Speaker 1: 12:50

What do they know?

Speaker 2: 12:53

Well, they, yeah they. They didn't have the most patience for a kid like me, I'll be honest. It wasn't entirely our fault. But but no, they literally said you're not very good at math, Is?

Speaker 1: 13:03

that something you tell a kid.

Speaker 2: 13:05

I don't think you're supposed to say that today you couldn't get away with it, no, but. I'm, in a sense, I'm I'm glad because, as much as I love aspects of what it would like, what it would be like to be an architect, I don't know that I would have thrived in that line of work in the end and so.

Speaker 2: 13:26

So I got a degree in communications. I went to the University of Colorado, colorado Springs, and Even there you could start your architecture degree, which one of my good friends did. He started there, but then you had to go to Boulder to finish it.

Speaker 2: 13:39

Okay and I'm glad that I stayed in the Springs for four years because I met a lot of good friends. I the the work that I went into started there and it was a lot of fun. And so I'm not I don't hold it against those teachers or I'm not disappointed that I didn't go into architecture, okay, but what I do now is very similar to architecture in that it's taking in a set of requirements, or Possibilities, if you will. You're just taking a look at the landscape and then figuring out how to make the most of it for the given audience. And so I don't do Not anymore, at least I don't do the interior design aspect, that level of what we do. I'm not into the details, the exact details that somebody would experience, but in terms of coordinating efforts across different Disciplines and trying to create a certain effect, yeah.

Speaker 2: 14:32

I do that.

Speaker 1: 14:33

Well, so you have kind of the gift of like the birds. I view in a sense right, and people recognize that it's like let's put Tyler here to kind of like manage kind of the cohesiveness of Projects and disciplines. Is that yeah, would you say? It describes you.

Speaker 2: 14:47

Yeah, I ask why a lot. Yeah, why are we doing this? What's the point? Why do we bother? Why not this, why not this? Why not this?

Speaker 1: 14:54

You're being genuinely curious right?

Speaker 2: 14:56

Yeah, because I I want to make sure that we're solving the right problem. Okay, and in architecture, in? At one point I'll Stop using this analogy, but I think we should. Just, you can go with architecture.

Speaker 1: 15:11

Everybody gets it you can.

Speaker 2: 15:14

Building a building isn't that hard. Okay. Building a high-quality building is is hard. That takes skill, planning, resources, experience. Building a Building that a high-quality building that also serves as intended purpose Is good, and then identifying what that purpose is is still yet another skill, and so putting all that together, that's where I I Like that phase where we're again, we're taking a look at what's happening and what are the different problems that we need to solve. And, yeah, how do we make progress in doing so? Because in any project, when you begin, there's a whole bunch of Possibilities. There are any number of options that you could pick, but not all of them are equal, and so the harder work, in my opinion, is deciding which one is gonna get you the most Return, the most impact.

Speaker 1: 16:09

Yeah, I, because I feel like what is so easy for so many businesses, I think maybe and I can speak for myself, I'll just talk for myself in the past, like I customize my keynotes for the audience right and the work you do, in a sense, is like Needs to be customized for a lack of better words, because everyone has their own specific needs and so to build that right building you have to understand the pain points and you know what solutions are gonna work toward that remarkable outcome that you're seeking.

Speaker 1: 16:36

How do you go from being a business that's just kind of like a cookie cutter, right like we have these solutions that work for everyone to? Hey, you have special needs, yes, different needs. You're unique. How, how do you? That's a lot right. That's a lot to. Is it research involved interviews? How do you get, how do you cut to the like increments is how you cut to the core of me, baxter. How do you cut to the core of each of your clients like this?

Speaker 2: 17:00

Well, baxter, we we genuine generally start with, we're pretty consultative company. I mean, we're a design technology consultancy yeah, but we were consulted before that because we want to make sure we're Good stewards of the resources these people are providing us. And so it. It starts with research and we'll talk with a Companies. Customers will talk with their sales leads, will talk with their leadership, with their support representatives, and Try to create a 360 degree picture of what's happening in this given situation. Yeah, and sometimes that leads us to ask questions beyond the record. The immediate request will say actually, the issues that you're trying to solve for in this project are actually caused by so what are the? Do we go over here and explain that, explore that, or do we just concentrate on what we can control here? Okay, and so it starts with asking a lot of questions and there are a host of different frameworks that we would use to get to the bottom of that.

Speaker 2: 18:00

Yeah and, honestly, it starts with the people, in that we have people that are Not just after the right answer in the right direction, but they want to build it in the right way, and that takes a Lot of experience to know all the different options out there that you could use to To build it.

Speaker 2: 18:19

And and one thing, to go back further in the process, clients usually come to us when the options that are on the shelf aren't Doing it. So it has to be custom, it has to be built to fit their organization, because Everything, whatever it is, whatever technology platform is out there, just isn't doing it for them, or they don't know which one would, and so they're trying to fit find a mix of custom versus off the shelf. Is it a certain set of integrations that they need to make to make their business run? And and you can build your business around some processes. A lot of times, companies or teams will design the way they work around a particular piece of technology and then they outgrow that and then they they're not sure what to do. They sure do. They modify it, and so we come in and help them navigate those, those trade-offs and everything that's going on there.

Speaker 1: 19:16

And is that the right way to do it? To build a system.

Speaker 2: 19:19

Well, what I mean?

Speaker 1: 19:20

not on here what you said, that they build their sort of systems off of their technology, right? Is that the right way you would recommend to go, or is there a better way?

Speaker 2: 19:31

It's. It's hard to say so. It depends, and the classic answers it just depends because the when you have a company and trying to it's never black and white with you.

Speaker 1: 19:43

No, I know, gray.

Speaker 2: 19:49

So when you, when you're starting a company, you're often Looking to maximize the impact that your business can have, and that means Picking tools that people have already built and they're usually affordable tools and so in order to use those, you have to create some sort of process, and as you grow, the process and the tools need to grow with you, and sometimes that means changing your process.

Speaker 2: 20:12

Sometimes it means changing your tools. Okay, and there are opportunity costs between. They're different opportunity costs as you as you move forward. Yeah, and Some businesses they work with a certain tool set for so long that they don't know how to work Otherwise. But there's, but it's still holding them back. Some businesses are just fine with that because they figured out how to work around it or how to grow on that tool set, and so it. There's not an easy answer. The. The question is how is business or how is technology helping or holding back your business? To what degree is it?

Speaker 2: 20:49

sometimes it's not sometimes it's great, yeah, but sometimes it genuinely is yeah, I would.

Speaker 1: 20:56

Yeah, I think of the Technology. To take it back to the possibility mindset, right, you said that like it's, you get used to a tool and then you know, environments change, times change and something becomes outdated and people like can't adjust. Is there a way and I think this is applicable to life, you know To stay more agile, to stay more nimble, right, so that you're ready for that next change? Well, what is there something you could recommend for me, for even my life? How can I be ready for that next hit, you know? Or that just the next change, you know, even if it's a small?

Speaker 2: 21:28

one. Oh man, that's. That's a question on the spot.

Speaker 2: 21:31

It is it, as I put you on the spot big time the when you're, when you're picking a tool, again, in your particular situation, you're gonna have to poke around. There gonna be plenty of tools for what you're looking to do, and so you might find the right combination To do them it, but it might it's gonna take more work for you to combine those tools and Get them to work in the way that makes sense for you and it gets what you want out of it. As far as larger organizations, or even as if you grow the podcast and this is what you want to do full-time, there are platforms that are made specifically for that. Kramer has our own podcast people a product. Check it out.

Speaker 1: 22:19

What is that again?

Speaker 2: 22:20

people of product people of product.

Speaker 1: 22:22

Yeah all right, kramer podcast Check it out.

Speaker 2: 22:25

Shameless plug it is. But and we use a given platform for that, ok, and for other podcasters, they they have. I mean, some of them have built their own platform because they were not. They're big enough, their needs were different and off the shelf tools didn't fit the way that they thought Interesting.

Speaker 1: 22:45

I can. I can vouch for this because I had to. I had to pick a platform for my podcast. Each one has its own perks, benefits, limitations, yeah. So it would be nice to have that consultant like Kremit to come in and say OK, what exactly are you trying to accomplish? Let's let's design one specifically for you. That's yours, yeah, right, yeah, that's yeah.

Speaker 2: 23:04

I mean when Kremit started first doing a podcast, it was several years ago, but we used a tool called Anchor OK, and it's now been acquired by Spotify. But you just talked in your phone and publish it out to you, and so there were tradeoffs there where you couldn't have as much editing flexibility. You can do this, this or this, but it was wicked easy to just send it out there into the, into the Internet's and, and as we've matured, our tools have matured and we have to work around how those tools work, because we want you're always trying to gauge the input, like how much effort you're putting into it versus what you're going to get out of it. And we could build our own. We know how to make software, but is the? Is the tradeoff worth it? For us?

Speaker 2: 23:49

At this point it's not, yeah, and so for other, for our clients, we help them weigh those tradeoffs because it's easy to have a sense of the possibilities. The possibilities for us and our clients are not typically the problem, because they're like I said. There are any number of ways we can go. The hard part is deciding which one is going to get us the most impact, given the tradeoffs that we have to make along the way, which one's going to cost more, which one is going to give us the most reach, the best usability, the best tech stack for a long term? Because in our world technology turns over over a certain period of time and so we say like two days sometimes.

Speaker 1: 24:29

So when we're building tech, for these clients.

Speaker 2: 24:32

they're spending a lot of money with us and we want to be good stewards of that. And if we choose a platform that is old, it's not very well supported by the creators of that platform If there aren't many developers for that. We have to be thinking ahead on our clients behalf and talk them through that and say we're choosing this design approach, this technology approach, because while it might be a bit clunky now, in the long term that learning curve will pay off because you'll be set in these five ways Well, and I can see I always I told you when we were eating breakfast.

Speaker 1: 25:05

I like to find parallels between industries, and the way that answers that question for me like how do you stay agile is you can try. You can try new things, but at some point you're going to be surprised. So it's good to pause and have an awareness of how do I make adjustments and have the help you need, which is what KREMA is, which is why you have such a successful, ongoing long term relationship with your clients, because it's like good, thanks for helping us over that hurdle. Now stick around for the next one, right? Because we're going to keep needing you to help us reinvent and innovate constantly, right? So, yeah, that's. I can see the benefit there For me.

Speaker 1: 25:38

I have a speaking coach. Her name's Danielle. She's awesome, but and I worked with her for three straight years and she just did amazing things for my mind, my keynote, my business, I mean she was like she was like a counselor. At times it was. She was like overqualified as a speaking coach, but she helped me write a keynote. But as industries and seasons change, my keynote has to change and without her alongside me right now, I feel a little bit lost. I know that I need to go back her and say I put in the best I can. I say I put in some new content and that I need your help, sort of massaging and nurturing, to make sure this is really optimized for the audience. And I feel like she's my crema. She's coming to me to say here's what we can do, and sometimes she even provides me with tools that are already out there that I can use as a speaker but definitely helps me, taylor, make that customized speech for my needs specifically, and so I can see why people want to work with you guys.

Speaker 2: 26:32

That's awesome. Jim Collins has this analogy I think it's in Good to Create where he talks about bullets and cannonballs and the analogy, which I might butcher, so apologies.

Speaker 1: 26:41

Please, please do. Mr Collins, it's a restaurant, butcher away.

Speaker 2: 26:46

But he says imagine you're on a ship and you have a limited amount of gunpowder and you see an enemy ship coming towards you. You have a couple options. You have some bullets and you have cannonballs and you can fire that cannonball and give them a surprise shot. The problem is that you don't know how your ship is calibrated. You're aiming and you're hoping that it's going to hit that other ship. You can also calibrate by firing bullets to make sure that your ship is pointed in the right direction. Then, once it's calibrated appropriately, then you fire the cannonball and then you have confidence. And so, as we help our clients make these trade-offs and as you're talking about with Danielle, you might fire some bullets and you might. For us that looks like prototypes, where we might build something in Figma we might make in paper.

Speaker 1: 27:37

Where the stakes are lower, because the costs are lower at this point for a bullet as opposed to the cannonball.

Speaker 2: 27:41

The point is learning and understanding. And so and you with Danielle, you're like I got this, I could do this, I could do this, and you're trying to calibrate where you're going to go big, because you can't stay agile forever, because if you're always staying agile on the surface, you're never going to be able to go deep and have any sort of impact.

Speaker 1: 28:05

And so that's the hard part. That is deep. By the way, I'm serious, that's good, that's a good nugget.

Speaker 2: 28:08

That's the hard part. Because you want to remain agile, because you don't know what's going to come up. Because if you're only looking here, but if you can get a strong sense of where you want to go as a speaker or a company leader for a team, if you can get a sense of the underlying currents that are happening in your industry so there are the waves and then the currents, and if you're paying attention to the currents, you might get a different read on what's happening than if you're just looking at the waves. And so you got to put all this together and then say, well, based on all this, this is the direction that we want to go. And if you just stay in one spot because you fear making the wrong decision, or you want to stay, if you only want to stay agile, then you're never going to get anywhere. And so you have to be willing and able to commit with confidence to make that long-term investment, or else you're just going to stay put.

Speaker 1: 29:05

Man, I think so many times I'm guilty of not calibrating, just dive into it. You've seen bad things happen when people in your industry, with your clients, when people just dive in too fast and then maybe they come to you to say, hey, we got to back it up here and change our focus.

Speaker 2: 29:21

I mean, I'll confess I see that for myself because I mean you can tell I just it used to be in my LinkedIn or Twitter bio or something I just I like possibilities, I that's what we were doing over breakfast.

Speaker 1: 29:34

Yeah, I mean, this is the podcast, right. Thanks for bringing it back to brand for me. I appreciate it. You know, do it again.

Speaker 2: 29:39

But there's a dark side of possibilities in that you can be so focused on yourself that you think every idea you have is a good one, or every possibility is equally valid and part. I'm not saying you in particular.

Speaker 1: 30:02

No, no, no, it made me think of something, but keep going yeah yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 30:05

And so there's. There has to be a discipline around pursuit of possibilities. If you don't have that discipline, then you're not. You're not just agile. It might feel like that. You might feel like, oh, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do this, but it's more, it's probably more of a defense mechanism than anything, because you're not going to make progress, you're not going to go. You're gonna have the opportunity to capture any of the compounding returns that come with choosing a direction in the long term. And so, with the possibilities, mindset is necessary. But the dark side I've found is if I'm only thinking about possibilities, then I rob myself and others of the goodness that comes with sticking with something for a long period of time. So that requires that much more diligence over time to make sure that I'm picking the possibility with the most impact.

Speaker 1: 30:54

I love that man and that goes along with what? Something that I talk about in my keynote. I use the soccer juggling illustration and I say start ugly, start small, pick up the ball. So, because we're not to be sloppy and get out there and waste resources and money. But you sometimes just gotta jump in. But if you're gonna jump in, don't have the stakes, be too high. Like take calculated risks right and start small. And for me with the soccer juggling it started with one, then four, then 10, and went to a bigger number that I ever imagined was possible. But I went in deep because I knew those small juggles. I was like I see potential here, you know, and once I saw the possibilities, I think that's what starts it, because if you don't see the possibility, you're not gonna start anything right. But to see it, but to be aware, to be mindful as you go in before you go big, I love that idea. That's crazy.

Speaker 2: 31:44

There's no shortage of distractions. But again, like you're saying, and it's easy, it's just easy to be seduced by it and say I can do this, I can do this. But, like you said, if there's a and when I'm talking with clients or I mean a lot of folks honestly the possibility that we have in mind in the long term might look different when we get there. And so the point of the learning in the middle is not to be able to do that right away, but to make progress and learn what it's like for me to get there. So you learning, soccer learning, can you soccer? Yeah, all right. You learning to juggle the journey for you to get there look different.

Speaker 2: 32:30

You can do the things that you imagine. You said I want to be able to do that, but you can also do a whole range of other things. Sure, and I would wager this is true for a lot of our clients that the thing that they had in mind that they set out to build, they might have built that, but that's almost a byproduct of whatever was created along the way they did that, but also these other things, and had they just jumped straight to the process of building that one thing that they had in mind. They would have missed a whole lot along the way. Sure, and that's just generally not a good steward, yeah.

Speaker 1: 33:04

A good steward of resources, yeah, I saw two parallels to stand-up comedy in this. One is when you said, like you think oh, every idea is a good idea. You know when you're writing stand-up comedy because I was heavily into it one time you think every bit, every joke you write at first like this is going to be hilarious.

Speaker 1: 33:19

And then you try it out, you know, in an open mic or something, and it just bombs and you're like, oh, that's not. Yeah, because you wrote it in the middle of the night, like at 3 AM, right, yep. A lot of times these ideas come and we're just like and then the other thing for me, like I think our like what I was getting from what you're saying is plan, it's okay for your plans to change, for your goals to change, especially when you start putting out these feelers that it's like oh, that's not even really what I want or that's not going to be the best thing for the organization as a whole, you know. And so for me, at one time I was like I wanted to transition away from keynote speaker speaking into stand-up comedy because it sounded more fun and I just wanted something new. And when I thought about it and I saw the lifestyle of a comedian you know how much they travel and how it takes decades to get really, really funny I was like maybe had I started that when I was 20, you know.

Speaker 1: 34:05

But now that I'm like 40, or it's, it's like it was just the wrong time in life for me to venture into that. So I finally realized I'm just going to stick with keynote speaking because it's kind of like it's my calling ultimately, I finally realized. But also it's, I just fell into it and so I'm just I'm going to stick with that, you know, and to be a, to be a good family man, to be a good steward of my time right now. So that was one of those where I'm glad I didn't like go all deep with that. I don't know what deep would have looked like for stand-up comedy maybe just to write a bit like I am no longer a keynote speaker, like like, like I declare bankruptcy, I am no longer a speaker, you know. But I'm glad that I learned quick enough that this is what I'm supposed to do, so I'm sure you help guide your people.

Speaker 2: 34:50

Yeah, and even then I would. I would call that a signal to say that there's probably something worth paying attention to in whatever you were doing from a keynote speaking perspective, but also, what is the appeal of comedy? And so I might take a client through a series of either workshops or frameworks or even just conversations, questions to say to help diagnose that situation. So what is it about key notes Speaking? That's.

Speaker 1: 35:18

I feel like I'm in a counseling session now which is great. It's like yeah, talk me back going to be a comedian, because I'll do it. Yeah, Just as quickly.

Speaker 2: 35:29

What is it about? You know, speaking that is boring you at this point. Is it great question? Or what about what is so attractive about that? And get to the heart of the matter, because usually, you know, in this case, stand up is a proxy for something else, or you see it? You see, stand up as a bundle. And I'm glad you got to the heart of it, where, yeah, it looks great from the outside, yeah, but it's a lot of work. Yes, it's a lot of work that you're not used to doing. It's totally different skill set.

Speaker 1: 35:56

Yes.

Speaker 2: 35:57

And not to mention the burden on your family and right and everything else. And so you you have to look at the whole package and then say but what? What is the glimmer of goodness in that? What do I want to pull from? What are two things that I could pull from stand up that look like they might be fun to try out?

Speaker 1: 36:12

Yeah and bring that back into you don't have to do one or the other. Yes, totally, Totally no you know how'd you do that.

Speaker 1: 36:18

Yeah, yeah, how did I do it? Well, I was inspired, as I was keen of speaking. I was inspired by Mark Mayfield initially, who was my first guest on this podcast. He was a humorist, like so funny keynote speaker and I was like, whoa, you can really be funny as a keynote speaker. But then it wasn't a few years and till after that maybe five years, and I was like what if I just went all to the? I went to the pendulum other way and just went all comedy and then and as a caveat, as a side note here, you know my listeners, my audiences know that I'm I'm about never give up, go for whatever you want to go for.

Speaker 1: 36:54

I could have said that was stand up comedy and said listen, lynn, my wife, I love you and I want to follow my dream of this here. It's going to be, I'm going to be less present, I'm not going to make as much money, at least not initially, but this is my dream because I believe I can do it now. I believe I could have done it, had had enough time. But there was a realization of I'm not going to. So it's not about that. I gave up. Right, it was, it was about adjusting that. So how did I bring that back in? To answer your question, it was like man, the two really do merge. Like you can bring that stand up back into the keynote. Now it does have to be more intentional, like there has to be a reason. You can't just be funny for no reason, right, it's like this this is funny, we're laughing in spite of this problem or this issue, but it's teaching us this about life. So so when I really did, you know, finally settle on that's, it's going to be a convergence of these two things, with keynote speaking being the lead thing, and it did like you said.

Speaker 1: 37:46

What was boring about keynote speaking? I think it needed that spark, and I'm always adding the new spark. You know, at first it was, you know, there was always the magic, and then there was, like the soccer, then the humor, and always bringing something in. So I'm sure that you know, with your clients, we don't have to give up this idea completely. But what are the best parts we can bring back in? That's going to supplement what we already have, to make us even greater and keep us on our toes and scratch that itch of this other thing we want to pursue and bring it all together. I'm sure that's part of your skill set is seeing the birds eye, and I love those questions that you go deep with because, as you're asking me what's boring about keynote speaking, I was reflecting back on yeah, what did make me go through that whole transition is sometimes it takes someone outside of yourself and outside of the organization to peak in and be like, oh, if we just move these pieces around and added this and took this away, it would just transform business.

Speaker 2: 38:38

Yeah, yeah, 100%. There's a, an author, former professor, named Roger Martin, who I've he's set the tone for how I think about a lot of these things, and he has a phrase called integrative thinking. Okay, and he talks about how, in a lot of decisions, it feels like it's either this or this, it's either keynote speaking or stand up, and integrative thinking is a systematic way of breaking down each of those decisions into their component parts options into their component parts, and then making a third, unexpected option that is uniquely yours. So in that case, you were attracted to the humor of Mark's approach. That doesn't mean you have to go all the way. He found that happy middle. And so what is that for you is how much? How much humor? Is it 30% humor, is it what? Because it's all about the intended effect, the impact that you want to have, and how you can do that in your own unique way.

Speaker 1: 39:40

Well, and along those lines, one thing we talked about over breakfast. I asked you in mind, sharing it here because I thought it was something valuable, because you're talking about the three horizons, right, Because I'm always thinking that. I'm always thinking what is that next, right? What is that next stand up comedy thing that I'm going to? And I think the most recent thing for me was podcasting. You know, I knew that was on the horizon for a long time, but, but there's three horizons. Tell us about those.

Speaker 2: 40:03

And a lot of folks at the KREMA team now are probably giggling, because I can't have a conversation without mentioning something like that.

Speaker 1: 40:12

Oh, it's a horizon, specifically, or? Some deep concept, like Lawson mentioned this is why I wanted you all, man, I mean because you're a fun guy, but seriously, I mean he's already mentioned so many professors and authors and good stuff, man.

Speaker 2: 40:25

But say, the three horizons model was developed by McKinsey years ago originally and it's lost some impact in terms of timeframes and whatnot. But as a way to think about your timelines and the questions you ask to support future success is is has been really helpful. So the first horizon is what are the things that are immediately in front of you? And so, if we're talking about technology and analogy might be, what are the bugs in our technology that we have to fix? We just absolutely have to fix what are the accessibility issues, the usability issues, and then so that's a horizon one thing whatever is most immediate in front of us and that will force us to ask different questions with our customers, with salespeople, then later on down the line. These are very near term, short, short term, fixed type questions.

Speaker 2: 41:17

Horizon two is in the immediate future and that might be a question like what new feature do we need to add into our product? Assuming bugs and other issues low, low level issues are resolved, what is the new feature, what are the new features we can add to make our product that much more useful, interesting, appealing, etc. And that forces us to ask questions that are not as obvious. So we can ask our customers. What do you not like about the product as it is? Where do you have troubles?

Speaker 2: 41:50

We can look at the call support or the call center transcripts. We can talk to our salespeople in here why people aren't buying it, and so we can decide where we want to build the product in terms of features. That's the same product, same users, but the workload and the investment is a bit different. And then third horizon might be what are the new customers that we want to attract to our product? And then, working your way backward, what are the features they would need? What are the features that they want? But what needs do they have that we can help solve? Maybe it's a part of this product, maybe it's not, but on the third horizon it's usually higher level questions when are we going in the long term? Who are the people that we need to go after? And it's a helpful framework again, because those questions are fundamentally different Oftentimes we ask if we're looking at our vision for the future.

Speaker 2: 42:50

companies will ask more usability centered questions and sometimes it happens where we get into research or strategy engagement and we say what?

Speaker 1: 43:01

kind of feedback do you have from?

Speaker 2: 43:02

your customers and they'll say we only have this really low level usability or issue type questions. Okay, that's great, we can work with that. But we need to go back to those customers and ask them different types of questions what more environmental questions, contextual questions and try to shape a broader picture.

Speaker 1: 43:23

Yeah, so I mean what I like about that from what it sounds like you're saying. Tell me if I'm wrong. You're asking questions up and down the line. You're going from one to two to three, three to two to one. I mean you're asking all these questions at the same time because they're all related, right?

Speaker 2: 43:37

Yeah, and I guess maybe sometimes, because, depending on the stage of the project or the stage of thinking, you're not going to get to a horizon three, answer through horizon one question. Sure, sure you can. That's really hard to get to. It'll be a winding path to get there Right. And so there are different types of research, there are different types of strategy, but you can be talking to the same customers throughout. It's just a matter of how you extrapolate, how you put those different responses together.

Speaker 1: 44:10

Yeah, gotcha. I'm just curious, because you're a great communicator You're good at explaining things you're good at explaining. I know your major was communications. How has that major played into your work? Was that a springboard or was that just a major?

Speaker 2: 44:24

I started out as an English major because I loved the textual analysis that I got to do in my English classes in high school. It was a lot of fun and I know, again, I'm a whole lot of fun at parties.

Speaker 1: 44:37

Let me tell you.

Speaker 2: 44:39

I love the analysis of it. But then I needed another class in my schedule and I took a communications 401 class that didn't have any prerequisites and it was called Persuasion and I really, really enjoyed that class. I did well in that class and I thought I can be a double major for a bit how hard can this be? And then I gave up the English major and finished out in communication and it was the observational side of communication that I really enjoyed about that major and I'm not gonna lie, it was not hard. I actually took it because, back to the math question, I only had to take two weeks of math to satisfy that major, so that was a big deal.

Speaker 1: 45:22

Dude, yeah, similarly, I was in family studies, which I think is a few notches below communications in terms of ease. I think I had a statistics course later on in college and so wow, so okay, back to the horizons idea. What's on the horizon for you, for Tyler Hilker, you know what I mean If we look at horizon two or even three, personally or professionally.

Speaker 2: 45:45

That's a great question, horizon one I'll back into it.

Speaker 2: 45:51

Horizon one at the Kremah is we're in a really fun stage where we are doing more and more research and strategy work, helping our clients get more investment, more clarity about what they wanna do in the future, and for a lot of them it's not that they weren't able to do that, it's in terms of intelligence or whatever, cause these people are wicked smart and they're a lot of fun to work with.

Speaker 2: 46:20

But we come in with a different perspective. We worked with a range of clients in different industries and part of our value proposition to clients is that we bring the best of these other industries and say I'm working with this banking client over here, you are in telecom, I can connect the dots between these two cause situationally there's a lot of similarities and so we're building that out into and not just our own line of business or our own service, because we've been doing that for years. But it's becoming more and more of who we are and how people see us. And that's fun because it reflects the value that we've provided to our clients for a long, long time. And Horizon 2 would be getting bigger in terms of that, not for the sake of getting big, but because we want to have that much more impact, and in the next couple of years, given the economy now we want to be really deliberate about that. We want to be we don't hire like crazy, like a couple other companies, I mean a couple other many other companies.

Speaker 2: 47:28

And we want to be developing this capability throughout everybody at the company and Horizon 3,.

Speaker 2: 47:38

That's hard to say, I think, for a company like us that changes the environment, is changing around us.

Speaker 2: 47:46

It's a matter of, excuse me, figuring out what those currents are and how do we ride them, because it's very tempting to, excuse me, ride those waves and just only look at the waves and get blown around by them. And so for us, what does it mean long-term to be a technology we call ourselves a human-first technology company, where we want to be serving the people with technology and not be technology-led? But given AI, given all these things that have come downstream from that not just AI but blockchain, virtual reality, augmented reality, all these different technologies converging at once is going to be pretty remarkable, and so we have to be paying attention not just at the surface level developments, but those deeper currents, and so we need to have capabilities and competencies, skill sets, perspectives that are good at those and can handle those, but not limited to those. We don't just want to be focused on the surface level of just one of those, want to be a partner that can help clients think through any one of those things.

Speaker 1: 49:02

Yeah, I like that analogy of the waves. It's hard to see past the waves and I think the listeners can I'm sure can relate when we're in survival mode. I'm not saying you or your company are, but it makes me think of when I'm in survival mode. It's hard for me to think about my retirement plan, you know, when I'm 90, it's like how do I keep my head above water right now? So, as a team leader, would that be a good term for you, are you?

Speaker 2: 49:27

a team leader, a department leader? Are you a leader as a leader? Yeah.

Speaker 1: 49:31

I mean, I know you lead people. How do you keep the people you lead inspired and in the possibility mindset? Yeah, that's a nat, that's Joe.

Speaker 2: 49:41

You've got like two here. Sorry, joe. Yeah, it's okay. Yeah, so I was gonna mention that's another dark side of possibilities, because I can come up with possibilities for anything, and that includes negative. And when the situation turns dark, when things get hard, it's very easy to come up with negative possibilities. And so the trick isn't stopping that, the trick is redirecting into a more not even positive, but just maybe optimistic is a better way to do it. I'm a pretty quick optimist, but in general. But if things get hard it's like, oh man, now we have to pay attention to this risk, this risk, this risk, this risk, this vulnerability, all that. And so the trick isn't to say stop it, I'm not gonna think of any more possibilities. The trick is to say in what ways is this good? In what ways would this hardship create new opportunities for us to do something different? Man.

Speaker 1: 50:36

How does this? It's opportunities and limitations right, right, right yeah.

Speaker 2: 50:40

What do we need to stop doing? Because possibilities often implies more, do more, do more than that, but it might just be do less. What do you need to stop doing? Because that's gonna take you down the wrong path. There's actually more risk, more vulnerability down that path than you say.

Speaker 2: 50:56

We're not gonna do that anymore and so when, honestly, the last year, given the broad economic space and the tech space, it's been hard and so it's forced us to reconsider again what we're actually good at, what have clients told us time and time again that we're good at, that we enjoy, both as a company and as individuals? How do we fall back to the things that are unique about us and that we can do well and then lean into that, rather than saying we're good at this one thing, what else can we be good at? What else can we be good at? And it's like I said before, it's a discipline to pursue those, the possibilities that have a certain level of impact, because again, it's gonna be distracting whether those possibilities are negative or they're just not the best ones that you pursue.

Speaker 1: 51:48

I mean again, it's a parallel with the soccer juggling thing. Once I hit a certain number. I hit like 11,241, as I share with my audience, and it was two hours of continuous kicking. The reason I'm telling I'm bringing this up is because I could have kept going to try to get a bigger number, but I discovered something called soccer freestyle, which is where you get tricky, you catch the ball in the back of your neck, you do tricks. I think you've maybe seen me do some of that and it's for me that was kind of the next level thing. It's like I could keep counting kicks and keep trying to go higher and higher, but I felt like there was this different thing that I could do. So while my whole life monitoring. Keynote title is something greater is always possible. I agree. Sometimes that greater thing might be stopping, resting, doing less, so that you can focus, laser focus on certain aspects and create a bigger impact with those, and so something greater is always possible. It doesn't mean working harder all the time.

Speaker 1: 52:37

It might mean working less and getting a bigger result.

Speaker 2: 52:41

Yeah, 100%. And again, I mentioned before compounding returns, where the more you practice, it looks like for the video, it looks like this and then eventually it starts to kick up. And that's when you're doing freestyling, you're not just juggling it off your feet. And if you can't reframe frustration or struggles or difficulties into something with a positive possibility, some sort of optimistic option, then it's gonna be super discouraging and you're just gonna attempt to dig it up.

Speaker 1: 53:13

Yeah, man, yeah, wow. How does this design stuff Like I'm thinking about? You're an awesome family man. You have an incredible family. How does the whole creativity part of you, the design part of you, that loves that? How does that carry into your personal life?

Speaker 2: 53:30

Right now at home. It's funny because we are in the midst of a few different like low level renovation projects.

Speaker 1: 53:40

Oh, okay, okay.

Speaker 2: 53:41

And the reason those are taking so long is because my wife and I keep thinking of new possibilities.

Speaker 1: 53:46

Ah, wow, case in point, right it's oh, we could do this, oh, we could do this, we could do this.

Speaker 2: 53:52

And it's taken work for us to, because we've not done projects at the size before, and so it's taken work for us to talk about what really matters and actually a great case of this just a couple of months ago. We have a big garden and we had talked about making that bigger in the next couple of years, and so we moved the garden fence in anticipation of that, and then we started to think it's kind of a horizon three type idea right, yeah, let's prepare for that future.

Speaker 2: 54:24

And then we were gone a lot this summer. We had a lot going on. And then, as the summer wrapped up, when we started talking about the garden and getting ready for next year, we thought, man, we've got two summers of our oldest at home. We could take advantage of the possibilities of having a larger garden and the fun that is. We could also take advantage of the possibilities that we could have with these kids. That's kind of a no-brainer, right. And so we said you know what, scrap the garden Because it would afford us certain possibilities. That would have been great, I don't know, 10 years ago, but they're not the possibilities that we wanted to get advantage of now, given the constraints that we have. And we wanna make the most of this time with our kids because, I mean, they're gonna be gone soon enough Hopefully no, but we love them and we wanna spend time with them.

Speaker 2: 55:22

And already this summer was that. Oh man, how do we make the most of this? How do we make the most of this? And so Amy and I got to point we were out there talking about the garden and we're like, no, we don't wanna value this as highly as we did, and there was even a moment where I said, well, I thought you wanted a bigger garden. She said I thought you wanted a bigger garden. Oh, I see how it's all. We're trying to communicate without communicating about what we wanted and what the other wanted.

Speaker 1: 55:54

So we're recognized as the communication major. Good job, good job, a little late. Well, a little late than never.

Speaker 2: 56:03

And so it it forced us to talk about what we value. Okay, and I value, I mean we each said I value time at home or time doing stuff out on the road. Like you said, we love adventure, we love road trips, so we value time with these kids over and above our, the things that we enjoy individually at home, like gardening, like being outside in the yard, whatever that is, and so it's, and with a couple of other projects, what do we value? Do we value this or do we value this, and or what are the other options? Get, what are the other reconfigurations that aren't immediately obvious, cause that's another thing with the possibilities, it's we're often enamored with the possibility that first comes to mind oh, I had this idea.

Speaker 2: 56:49

And we will go through exercises at work to say, yes, that that's a good one. That's possibly it, but let's take a step back and see what other options we can come up with. Jason Freedy, who's the founder of base camp and 37 signals it's a software tool, he says. He wrote in a blog post your first design might, might be your best, but you won't know until you can't find a better one. And so we say this is my first idea. It is my job to find a better one. If I don't, then we go back to that one.

Speaker 1: 57:23

And so, with the house, with work, that's why it's so hard for me to shop for pants, by the way, I'm not even kidding. I'm like this is great, but man, what else is possible?

Speaker 2: 57:30

What else could I do?

Speaker 1: 57:31

So with the house, yeah.

Speaker 2: 57:34

So what are the? You have to work to generate these other options so that you know you've exhausted all the possibilities and say, no, I know definitively, this is the best one, and and so again back to the house. We're finally suddenly into this is what we're going to do, this is where we're going to start, because in doing this, this decision unlocks these other decisions. It's not one big monolithic project. It feels like that and it's easy to think about it like that, but what is the one thing that will set everything else in place?

Speaker 1: 58:05

So in that moment, when you chose time with your teenage children over garden, in a sense, how do you feel in that moment?

Speaker 2: 58:14

Absolute freedom. Yeah, like both of us were like that's easy, like we didn't have the burden of having to figure this out and squeeze it in all the alongside, all these other things we needed to do. We just said explicitly and said this is what we're going to value. We want that. We want that big garden. We might get it someday, we might do that, but from a values perspective, this is what needs to happen.

Speaker 1: 58:39

I imagine that's, that's awesome and that's the kind of work that you and Kremu do for your clients. Give them a feeling of freedom, like, oh, this is what's important, let's, let's focus here. I love it, man. Well, thanks, I'm sure the listeners are going. Wow, there's probably some things that maybe you need to look at. You know, like I do in my life, and prioritize a little bit and figure out, you know, how to find that freedom. So, man, appreciate you sharing that part of it.

Speaker 2: 59:01

Yeah, that's huge.

Speaker 1: 59:02

And if you, if there is something for you you know, please comment and just let us know what's. What are you going to do differently? How can you experience freedom by just being intentional, having that designer's eye to focus on what's going to give you the most ROI? So, man, I have a couple of final questions before I give you those, and one of them is an on the spot, but it's a fun on the spot, okay, before we do that, I just want to say thanks again to Exeter Rashani for the wonderful breakfast for the space.

Speaker 1: 59:28

It's really great. It's always a blast being here. Sonya, our server. I've looked out at her every time. She's awesome. And I've drank this entire. Yeah, that's, that's good. You've had that entire cup, that tire pot, I love it. And then thank you also to Shannon, the manager, for making all this happen. So, okay, how can people who who maybe do need KREMA maybe there's some professionals listening how can they get ahold of KREMA? What's the best way?

Speaker 2: 59:53

Our website is KREMAus KREMAus, okay, and you can read about us there. Obviously, linkedin We've got a great YouTube channel with a whole bunch of content. Like I mentioned, the podcast. My personal site is TylerHilkercom. I'm also on Twitter and LinkedIn.

Speaker 1: 1:00:10

Okay, awesome, and if you?

Speaker 2: 1:00:12

want reach out to me directly, Tyler, at KREMAus.

Speaker 1: 1:00:15

Okay, tyler, krema Tyler at KREMAus. Okay, we'll. We'll link your personal website on the podcast. And don't forget also Zero Shoes, baby, check them out. Yeah, check them out. They're incredible. Zeroshoescom. Slash, go, slash. Devon, would love for you to experience the freedom that you get when you go natural and go barefoot. Thank you, tyler. Okay, awesome. Last question for you. One piece of advice for my daughters Anything?

Speaker 2: 1:00:49

I heard you ask this to Will and I thought how am I going to answer that question?

Speaker 1: 1:00:56

You've had weeks now. Oh, I know.

Speaker 2: 1:00:59

He gave a great answer. Will said something like stick with each other, be each other's friends. Oh yes, and that was. That was really good. And I mean I again I was thinking about all last night and I might, I didn't have anything good. So your daughters get zero advice, that's right Well.

Speaker 2: 1:01:20

I would say something along the lines that don't get distracted by everything out there, like there's a.

Speaker 2: 1:01:31

One of the advantages that you have as a big family is the many touch points to stay grounded. And when I look at people my age or younger, some older of course, they've cut off those roots in pursuit of something that they wanted to pursue, whether it's their own dreams or a new situation. Sometimes that's healthy and good, but I see a sense of groundlessness in a lot of our different aspects of our culture. And so how do we stay grounded? Remember who, not just where, we came from, but we are somebody and we come from somewhere, and there's power in remembering that, for better or worse. I mean, that's not to say my family situation was perfect growing up, but it shaped me and it's up to me to make the most of that and to see how God can shape us through that. And so it's kind of a corollary to Will's, because that was a really good answer, but find a way to stay grounded with each other, with who you are, in pursuit of whatever possibilities are out there.

Speaker 1: 1:02:50

That's great man. Thank you All right girls. You heard him Great advice and I think you all see now why we needed Tyler Hilker on this podcast.

Speaker 2: 1:02:57

So I think you can join I really appreciate it.

Speaker 1: 1:02:58

So great, just having the wisdom, and it's always, it's always. I always get a nugget or two from Tyler. So, okay, all right. Well, I think that's what we're going to wrap here. Watch us on YouTube, go to Devon Henderson speaker and subscribe, like, share it with someone who you think needs this message. And don't forget, you know, comment, rate the podcast to let us know what you think, how you're going to live differently from something that Tyler said here today. And with that we are going to do my sign off line, which is what else is possible. But I always say what else the audience usually says is possible. So I'm going to have, I'll say, what else you say is possible. Got it Okay, all right, y'all Thanks for joining and never stop asking what else is possible Boom.