#23 Kansas City Royals Broadcaster Joel Goldberg

Emmy award-winning reporter and Kansas City Royals pre and postgame host and in-game reporter Joel Goldberg joins Devin to talk all things celebrity interviews, sports broadcasting and life's possibilities. From Super Bowl runs to world series victories, Joel opens up about the fundamental role of relationships and trust in crafting a successful career as he shares tales of connection with sports icons like Salvador Perez and Albert Pujols. It's not just about the home runs; it's about the human element that brings stories to life and the leadership lessons learned along the way—lessons that ring true whether you're on the field, in the boardroom, or behind a microphone.

Join us as we unpack the power of the Possibility Mindset. It's more than a catchphrase; it's a lens through which to view your career, your relationships, and your personal growth. From Joel's transition into the entrepreneurial world to the principles that can catapult any professional journey forward, this episode is a home run for anyone looking to be inspired, to learn, and to imagine greater possibilities. Tune in for a conversation that's as real as it gets—no excessive editing, just pure, unscripted insights from two friends who believe there's always something greater on the horizon.

Guest Website: https://joelgoldbergmedia.com/

Xero Shoes: https://xeroshoes.com/go/devin

A special thanks to our sponsor Eggtc. Shawnee!
https://eggtckc.com/eggtc-shawnee

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:05

Hey, what's up everybody. Welcome to the Possibility Mindset Podcast. I'm Devon Henderson, I'm your host and I believe that something greater is always possible for you All. Right, joel, before I introduce you formally, let me ask you how were the breakfast tacos here at Excedera Shawnee? Excellent.

Speaker 2: 0:26

Good breakfast, tacos, coffee Nice way to start the day. I'm a breakfast guy, yeah. So give me eggs, give me some jalapenos in there, throw it in a taco, throw it in a burrito, throw it in a bowl, whatever it is. The breakfast tacos were excellent.

Speaker 1: 0:44

Awesome man, that's what I'm talking about. See, that's Excedera Shawnee. They do it up right, they're amazing here. So if you haven't tried, etc. Come on down. Okay, we have a couple locations in KC, so give it a whirl. I'm kind of the guy who always gets the same thing. As long as there's like meat, there's eggs sprinkle a little bacon, a little protein, and get some oatmeal in there, some fruit. I'm ready to go, man.

Speaker 3: 1:05

I'm ready to podcast at that point which is saying a lot, I guess the oatmeal I mean you could be sleepy after this, but yet you're ready to go.

Speaker 1: 1:13

I think I'd be sleepy if it was like a waffle or a pancake. I feel like the oatmeal is like that lighter carb. That kind of gives me wings.

Speaker 2: 1:19

That's right, which, by the way, they have the waffle, the pancake too, I'm pretty sure.

Speaker 1: 1:23

Oh, yeah, yeah, they do. Oh, they do have it all. Yeah, if you want it, just me, for, like, I have to take it easy, otherwise it's dangerous. I'm with you. Yeah, man, well, awesome, well, hey, for the full experience for this podcast. You know, go to YouTube, subscribe, like, share with your friends. We're going to have some awesome wisdom, information stories for you today from Joel, so you're going to want to be sure to share this. So one more question for you, joel, before we get to formally introducing you Do you like to walk? I do like to walk, okay, do you like to walk? This is this might separate us, as like, yeah, okay, this might divide us a little bit. Do you like to walk barefoot?

Speaker 2: 2:01

I feel like I know this isn't a trick question, but I feel like you're going to want me to say yes.

Speaker 1: 2:08

I want you to be honest. So even if you say no, we'll, we'll figure out, We'll still be friends.

Speaker 2: 2:14

Yeah, yeah, I typically walk with like something on that resemble shoes.

Speaker 1: 2:19

Okay, okay, which is fine, that's, that's fine. So I, the barefoot thing is kind of this culture, it's like this whole lifestyle shift of realizing that, like being connected to the earth and the grass is good. Grounding and grounding. There you go, you know, you understand.

Speaker 2: 2:30

Yeah, you know, Around the young kids, the athletes.

Speaker 1: 2:32

Yeah, that's right. I mean yeah. And so you know, the earth is electric, our bodies are electric, but on top of that, like we're just really built meant to walk barefoot, like our muscle structure, our bones and all that. So that's why I like to recommend Zero Shoes. It's what I wear, it's honestly all I wear. I speak in zeros, I kick a soccer ball in zeros, I run, I walk, I would sleep in zeros if my wife would let me. I totally would. So, so go to zeroshoescom slash go slash, devon just to check it out, see if it's for you. Just try your first pair. It really honestly, for me it's changed my life. I love these shoes, they're totally amazing, and it's also a way you could support this podcast. So you can find the link in the show notes zeroshoescom slash go slash, devon. All right, well, joel, congratulations.

Speaker 3: 3:16

What did I do? Yeah, what'd you do? I can't wait to find out.

Speaker 1: 3:18

You're the first guest to join us with our new podcast equipment See Break it in. I know I was like, well, let's you know who's going to be the right guest to be the first person for the equipment and that, or it just worked out that way. But a little bit of you know, a little bit of destiny, it's it just worked out. So, yeah, this, we got Zach behind the scenes doing his thing. He's awesome. So Zach shout out and yeah, so this is fun. So you, know, strap in. Let's see how this goes.

Speaker 2: 3:46

Honored to be the first, whether it was by design or whether fate just brought us here. And I will say, as someone that you know has been in this business a long time it's that people don't realize this and you don't. You don't see it, you won't hear it, but it's nerve wracking when you're trying out new things because you want to get it right and you know that it's going to be better. But sometimes, like when we finish this later, you may say to me oh, we forgot to roll. Can we do it again?

Speaker 3: 4:10

We've all been there by the way, it's a great thing.

Speaker 1: 4:13

Zach's like oh, speaking of which, yeah, I forgot to hit record, you know.

Speaker 2: 4:18

We'll do that all the time on TV too, like we'll finish a great interview and then the photographer will say, like, did you want me to roll on that? Oh nice.

Speaker 1: 4:25

Nice, I have a friend who you'll talk, you'll tell like a 10 minute story. He's like could you repeat that I, you know, hey, and one thing also about this podcast you may or may not know, I don't we don't really like to edit a lot unless it's something significant, a significant interruption. And the reason I tell you that is because I'm going to ask Zach right now hey, how we looking Like, are we both? I want Joel to be comfortable. Is he facing okay? Is we? Are we good? All right?

Speaker 1: 4:49

Zach's like leave us, leave me out of this dude.

Speaker 1: 4:52

I like to work behind the scenes. Don't even drop my name, man, act like we don't know each other. Okay, awesome, man. Well, I want to introduce you and I keep saying but this first, but this we can't ignore this fact. Okay, last night, who won the Super Bowl? Again, I can't remember, I don't know, I think it was the chief. It was the chief. That's right Now. This podcast isn't coming out for, like I don't know, two or three weeks after this, but we can't not talk about it, especially when you're the sports guy. Yeah, so thoughts, feelings on how it all went down.

Speaker 2: 5:23

You know, it's all really interesting to me because, first off, it was a great game and I think that any game that goes down to the wire, let alone an overtime, is going to be a classic. It just is. It didn't feel like a great game for a while. It was. It was pretty boring in the first half. There wasn't a lot of scoring, but the tension was there the whole game. You could feel the storylines mounting.

Speaker 2: 5:45

I view games differently. I'm not a football expert. I covered football over the years. I can come up with a million people that know the game better than I do, but I just I know storylines. I think in storylines and you could see it developing the whole time, right, that you could see it building.

Speaker 2: 5:59

I kept saying to everyone that they're not playing that well the chiefs. Yet there's still one score away from winning this, and usually when you let a good team stay in a game that they don't have a business being in, based on how they're playing, they find a way. And there's just there's so many cool storylines with Mahomes and with with Andy Reed, and I was telling you before that the greatest of all time find a way to do things that no one else can do. And he, patrick Mahomes, is in that category. And so you know, for anyone that's checking out this podcast, if you're a chiefs fan, even a few weeks later, you're still giddy over this.

Speaker 2: 6:40

If you're not a chiefs fan, you probably hate them. But I think, ultimately you you know you've, you've arrived when you've gone from the the darling, the beloved team in America because everybody likes the small market Cinderella story to being hated because we're sick of you. That's when you know you've started to create a legacy. But you know, I just think, like I've covered a million great games and bad games and everything in the middle, and games that aren't too, too significant and games that are incredibly significant.

Speaker 2: 7:08

And last night, just as a fan, falls under the category of one of the greats of all time, people will talk about that game for generations and so just to be able to be in that moment, talk about being present. You know that that's what I want people to take out of last night's game and if it's not your team, maybe something else will come up where it is your team, or maybe you feel like your team will never win it and one day, hopefully they do and and you get to enjoy it is. You have to enjoy these moments because that there's no guarantee they'll get back. They just keep finding a way back. That makes it even more special because you don't see it very often anymore.

Speaker 1: 7:43

Yeah, yeah, wow. And you know what Chiefs fan or no chiefs fan, all of us are Swifties Should be, so there's something for everyone.

Speaker 3: 7:52

Should be. Well, you got young kids. When it comes to the chiefs, I do have young kids. I'm sure that some of your kids love her right.

Speaker 1: 7:57

Yeah, we're counting how many times they showed her. We're like that's not enough. We need more Taylor. I don't know what the deal was.

Speaker 3: 8:02

I'm pretty sure not everybody in.

Speaker 2: 8:03

America feels that way. But I'll just say this and somehow this, like this whole thing, turned into political, which is absurd, like it's that's just the world we live in. But I think what I say about Taylor Swift and I now have a teenager and a 20-something and and my daughter is the teenager and she likes to claim that she was a Kelsey fan before. She was a true Swifty, although she liked her music. But I think that my point here is that there's, whether you like the chiefs or you don't, whether you now suddenly feel like you don't like her because of I don't know why people wouldn't like her. She brings people together, she, she, around the globe, has this ability of being an unbelievable role model for young kids and especially young girls. And now it's really cool to me to and I know there's skeptics like I can't imagine, I don't know Devin. I mean, could you imagine living in her world and every step you take is chronicled by paparazzi and this, and that I feel like like this is the most at that level, since maybe Princess Diana and she kind of has that feel too of someone that brings people together and does good around the world.

Speaker 2: 9:22

Maybe you know I was watching the Beckham documentary on Netflix, your Soccer Guy, and the level of where they were at. You know, beckham and Posh Spice neither one of them individually are greater than what Taylor Swift is worldwide, but maybe collectively they were. They were bigger, where every step and move they take and, in his case, in England, beloved until they decided they hated him because, you know, he messed up in one game. I can't imagine what it would be like to live in that world. So I get why there are skeptics of you know, maybe it's just a made for TV thing, or maybe it's a whatever. They look pretty genuinely happy and I think it's pretty cool to watch all that playing out Like who roots against love? I don't know. Yeah, who roots against love?

Speaker 1: 10:06

I think that's the name of this episode, that's beautiful.

Speaker 1: 10:11

Who roots against love man. That's so good. Well, this is a man who really doesn't need an introduction. But why not, right? I mean, let's do it. And our speeches are kind of like this we tell a story, we hook them in, then they get the intro and the why and where we're going. So let's jump into that Everybody.

Speaker 1: 10:25

This is Joel Goldberg, and you probably know him from the Kansas City Royals post game shows. So a little fun facts that you probably don't know he's been married almost 25 years, two kids in college. I mean, this man has really, truly rounded the bases, as he likes to say. He's been on TV for 29 years and the last 16 have been the pre and post game show, like I mentioned, with the Royals and you get to travel with them, I mean, wherever they go. So you are all over the place, that's, to the moon and back. Right, you've dodged a lot of Gatorade buckets. I'm sure Andy Reid would appreciate that kind of nimbleness. Right, like, yeah, he got nailed with some purple Gatorade last night. You won an Emmy. I have a daughter named Emmy, so we're talking about the award. You won an Emmy Award for reporting in 2001. Congratulations, Thank you. Yeah, because you've been. I mean, you've been also Wisconsin and St Louis.

Speaker 3: 11:16

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 11:17

I mean you did, speaking to Super Bowl, you did some Super Bowl work with the Rams.

Speaker 3: 11:20

Yeah, back when they had a football team.

Speaker 1: 11:22

Back when they had a football team. There you go. Yeah, All right. So his podcast, which I was actually on recently rounding the bases with Joel Goldberg that's him, in case you you know checked out at some point. That began in 17, 2017. A lot of kind of mini guests, right, Tech 9. Who's the KZ native? Right, KZ native? Yeah, Bob Costas. And then I looked it up so I could say my episode is 911.

Speaker 3: 11:49

So there you go 911. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 11:51

I know that's a lot of episodes you've done. I'm on. I think this is 22 or 23.

Speaker 3: 11:55

So you know watch out, it's a long haul, I'm gonna catch you.

Speaker 1: 11:57

It's a long haul, not a competition yeah man and he has a book called Small Ball, big Results. I like that Speaking, which you sent me in the mail, and I need to read it's sitting on my desk.

Speaker 3: 12:09

You don't have to. I mean, it's not you know it's not an obligation, I don't have to Okay, there'll be no test.

Speaker 1: 12:12

Well, it takes the pressure off, but you know, I still want to read it.

Speaker 3: 12:15

Yeah, I have to have a chapter here. There you go.

Speaker 1: 12:17

There you go. He started his speaking business back in 2016 and he's kind of like me in the sense that, like we talked about on your podcast, baseball is your metaphor for life. Magic is my metaphor for life, but you like to use those baseball stories when you do as teaching and storytelling mechanisms right, the same way that I would use magic.

Speaker 2: 12:36

So yeah, 100%, and I think that that's like I would say. There aren't a lot of people that could do what Devin does the magic, the juggling, all this type of stuff. So I, you know there's one side of it that says, well, I can't put myself in your world because I can't do any of those things. What I do know is that I can storytell and make that point using that metaphor. The way you do with your magic mind is usually baseball and the people that I meet and tying it together. I think that, in the end, the good speakers are great storytellers and they're dot connectors. We're connecting dots for people. We're not telling anyone generally. We're not telling anyone anything they haven't heard before. Hopefully, we're doing it in a different way that connects those dots, in a way that gives you those aha moments oh yeah, now I get that, and so that's the commonality between us.

Speaker 1: 13:22

Absolutely, absolutely. It's so easy to compare and look at another speaker and I mean you can all relate to this too, whatever industry you're in Just look at someone else and say I don't have that. I call it the illusion of comparison, that it's like I can't. I can't do that. Well, you have your own brilliance. You know your own ingenuity. You can be innovative and bring out the best you and I mean it's all sounds, you know, cliche, cheesy if you will, but I mean it's, it's true. You know we see it play out in our, in our industry all the time. So one last thing I want to mention, biographical wise, is some of your favorite TV interviews You've done Rowdy Roddy Piper, who's the Canadian wrestler.

Speaker 2: 13:59

I think he was American, I believe.

Speaker 3: 14:02

I don't think he was.

Speaker 2: 14:02

Canadian. I know he always talked about the Scottish background. I don't know how much of that was real or not real, but yeah, he was amazing.

Speaker 1: 14:09

Okay, awesome man, that's, that's fun. And then the other one was Will Ferrell. Yeah, so so I you know it's, it's so tempting to just be like Joel tell me what it's like to be on the field with the Royals after the game. I want to hear all that. But I really also just want to hear a lot about your personal life, what you do on stage and the message that you bring to your audiences, because with this speaking business that you have, I mean you really are changing lives, transforming people, and through your book too, and so so I want to hear about all of it. But I have to kind of ask one fanboy question. You got to interview Will Ferrell. I mean, like comedy legend. I mean I love Elf Anchorman, you know it's like. What was that like?

Speaker 2: 14:50

Yeah, Elf Anchorman, old school.

Speaker 1: 14:54

We go on a Saturday night live, I mean all of it.

Speaker 2: 14:57

I mean, he's a legend, Really nice guy, by the way, too. So was the late Roddy Roddy Piper. He was a sweetheart of a guy, Will Ferrell. I'll take you back, I think it was 2011. For those that know, the Royals have this big well, it's not the Royals deal, but the big slick charity event every single year, started by Paul Rudd and Rob Riggle and Jason Sudeikis, and eventually they added Eric Stone Street and Heidi Gardner and all these local famous comedians and the first year and they bring in friends from around the country and there are a lot of you know actors that you've seen around. Maybe, you know, not at the level of a Paul Rudd all of them Certainly not at the level of a Will Ferrell, but they're all highly accomplished, really skilled, funny people that have been on SNL and this and that, and there's always a connection between these guys. He knows, you know, this guy is the opening act for Jimmy Fallon and Seth Herzog and he goes back to this point with Paul Rudd. You know, they all know each other in New York, wherever it is, and the first year they do this big slick to raise money for children's mercy. It's a brand new charity they're starting, which has now been going 13 years. They've raised millions and millions and millions of dollars.

Speaker 2: 16:08

Will Ferrell was one of the guests and at that point they would give me a full inning in the dugout suites. So right along the third base side, behind third base dugouts, two dugout suites and they would give me a full inning to interview these celebrities. Now we do it in a half inning because it's like all right, you know, we've been there, done that, They've got a lot of obligations and my game plan, since I had a full inning, was I'm going to sit the first half and interview Rudd, Riggle and Sudeikis. This is pre-Ted last, so, but they're all you know. Sudeikis have been a star on SNL.

Speaker 2: 16:42

Everybody knew who Paul Rudd was. Riggle's been in some of the you know greatest roles that hang over with the Taser scene on and on, and that's going to be enough. And then I'm going to see if I can get up the courage in the bottom of the inning I think it was the third inning I'm going to try to get up the courage to go. I think Will Ferrell was inside. There's an inside part of the suite and then you can come outside. You're right along the baseline In between innings, during the commercial. I'll go in and ask if he'll do it and if you know, if he's a jerk or whatever, then it's fine.

Speaker 2: 17:12

Like you don't know, Like you know, good guy, bad guy, leave me alone, I'm not doing this, I mean I don't even know that that makes you a jerk If you're getting pulled in a million directions all day long, and then that's what I tell people all the time too. Maybe you got them at the wrong moment, so right we're. I don't know. Not even halfway into this interview with with Sedeikis and Rod and Riggle, and up walks Will Ferrell and just interrupts the interview. He just walks in and so they somebody hands him a microphone and he, just for the next 10 minutes, takes over in what was basically. I had a front row seat with an occasional chime in to keep things moving, front row seat to night at the improv with Will Ferrell and those guys, and they're all. They're all kind of, you know, in deference to him, like they all. Every one of those guys can run circles or on any normal person in terms of the way they're mind things, how quick. But now they, they want Will Ferrell on center stage.

Speaker 1: 18:13

It's like they got Rob Robin Williams in the room now. Right, just like you can't compete.

Speaker 2: 18:17

Yeah, and I realized that was the first year that I realized, because I do whatever year with them now, minus Will Ferrell just set it up for them and then shut up. And then, when it runs its course and they need another direction, throw something out there. And so he walks in, they hand him a microphone and he starts screaming out to the to the field, yelling at Royals pitcher, bruce Chen, come on, chen, I don't like his body language, he's lullagang, I don't like that. And so I, finally, I remember, I say, ladies and gentlemen, will Ferrell is joining us, will um in to support your friend's charity. And he just looks at me and he goes just deadpan. No, no, I, I just passing through Kansas City, as I do every year in June, and they're like real, oh, you know, I could hear, I don't know, was Rob regular?

Speaker 2: 19:07

So I'm like really where, where, where were you going that you just were passing through here? Well, I had some seats up in the upper deck. I don't know how I ended up down here on my way to Branson to do a, to do a show. Oh, oh, what's the show about? They just know, just keep poking the bear, right? Yeah, oh, what's the show about? It's a. It's a one man show about the history of banjos and it's something like it's three hours long with 20 acts or whatever he said, and it's called America's Got Back and it's about a, something like it was like about a back tattoo of the American flag, and just goes on, and on, and on and on, and I'm like they're just creating the story and I'm just going to sit here and relish in it. So he couldn't have been nicer. And you know, this is very same thing to Roddy, roddy Piper. Once that camera's on that switch turns and it's like you're just watching television gold.

Speaker 1: 20:09

That is man. What a crazy.

Speaker 3: 20:11

I'm getting starstruck for you from that moment, from forever ago.

Speaker 1: 20:15

That's so cool.

Speaker 2: 20:17

You know what you're learning, and it's not true for all of them, but you just learn their, their people. I mean they're all people, obviously.

Speaker 2: 20:23

And most of them are pretty good guys. And then and then what I know and it's the same thing with the athletes, even though I'm a lot closer with the athletes because I'm around them every day if you give people the right amount of space and respect the space that they need, they're more likely to come back, you know. And so, yes, it'd be great to chat with like as soon as we're done. I'd love to sit there and talk for 20 minutes, because how cool would that be.

Speaker 3: 20:50

But you know what, they got other stuff to do, so I just respect people's space.

Speaker 2: 20:54

When you do that, they understand that they're probably going to do a quick something that helps support something and they'll give you, hopefully, their best, and every now and then they don't, but that was. That was a pretty cool one.

Speaker 1: 21:05

Well, what a mark of a pro for you rolling with the punches and not being like guys. Can we bring this back? I have questions for, but just letting that play out. That was. That's brilliant. I don't think a lot of people would. I don't know. I imagine like maybe some people wouldn't have that awareness and then would create it awkward and squelch that whole comedy journey that they're taking you on. So cool that you just sat back and let it happen.

Speaker 2: 21:26

It's kind of my interviewing style anyway, and I, you know I want to be careful with saying that that this doesn't mean be unprepared. There's a danger if you're a guy that likes to add lib and likes to roll with it, that wants to play off of the answers and doesn't want to get trapped by a specific set list, so to speak. Right, right, you know it's, it's more like, I don't know, like a jam band, like let's just go with the flow, and but there's a danger to get lazy and not do your homework. I think you still need to be able to do your. You have to be able to do your homework. You still need to.

Speaker 2: 21:58

You know I always say I could show up and do a show. You know, as we're doing this right now it's February, we're still about six weeks from opening day. If you told me that opening day was in five minutes and that you got to go on the air and do your first show in six months in five minutes, I'd be like great, just help me. Help me know where we're going next. Yeah, and we'll get there. My fear would be am I dressed right? Because I'm not going to be ready in five minutes. But if this is good, let's go, yeah, but that that doesn't happen. If you were to drop me, say in I don't know, drop me in Miami and say, hey, go host the soccer team's pregame show in five minutes, and I'd be like, ok, I know they got messy, but I don't really know anything else. And, oh man, I don't know what I'm going to do here. So you have to have your background.

Speaker 2: 22:46

But I think, and look, some people Devon are, they're script, they're script people, they, they need that structure. And I'm not saying that's bad. If you're someone and this is not just a TV thing or a speaking thing, this is a presentation, this is a boardroom, this is anything yeah, if you're someone that that really wants to, you know, follow that exact script and you need that, and that's where you're at your best then that's what you should do. But I think, ultimately, if you know what you're talking about, you've done your homework. You know.

Speaker 2: 23:17

I know maybe not everything about the Royals, but I know enough to get me by, day after day after day, on a bad day. If, if, on a bad day, your worst is still good enough, then trust your instincts and listen a little bit, because when you're, when you're deep into a script, you tend to miss what's going on and developing in the moment, and nothing ever goes exactly to plan. That's what I love about live television. That, I believe, has prepared me for so much in life, and you know this from a speaking standpoint.

Speaker 2: 23:48

When does everything, when you go speak to a group on stage, when does everything go exactly as planned? It's like a wedding. That's right, yeah, that's right, and and probably the best wedding planners understand that something's going to go wrong, and probably, when that something goes wrong, it's something that they've seen in some form or another before, and so, instead of panicking, it's like boy, I wish this didn't happen, but all right, let's figure it out and move on. Yeah, and that's a very comforting thing, not just for you as a speaker, not just for me as a speaker or as a broadcaster, but but hopefully for everyone around you, including the audience, who may not even know anything's going wrong.

Speaker 1: 24:24

Well, and what audiences excuse me, what audiences really appreciate today is audience interaction facilitation, right.

Speaker 1: 24:32

And so I look at a podcast the same way, like I'm facilitating, right. We're trying to create this conversation and I was given some really good advice when I started podcasting. Like don't don't have a list of questions, you know, maybe as a backup, maybe just a few kind of go-tos in case you hit a dead end and you go blank. But the whole idea is just to be genuinely curious, right? Like if you're just curious, because anything you might say might open up a question to me, and if I'm like if I'm asking that, they might be asking that too. So don't let that like ask that question so that it can go deeper, because you never know what doors that might open up. And that's part of the fun of just you know, I don't look at it as winging it, I look at it as like just being curious and that's the plan, right, if you stick to that plan, I mean it's going to go awesome places that you couldn't have planned in your formatted questions.

Speaker 2: 25:19

That's right. And if it's not winging it again, if you've done your background and you have, it's like when you're speaking or when I'm speaking, and you'll get some people and I'm not talking money here, but you'll get some people that say, wait a minute, they're going to pay you X amount of dollars for an hour. Wow, that's a pretty good gig. And it's like, no, no, no, they're, they're. They're paying us for a lifetime's worth of experience. You're sharing a lifetime's worth of experience in one hour. And that's what. That's what this is. It's not winging it, it's an ability to pivot, it's a bill, it's an ability, in the moment, to go where the conversation's taking you, where you know the moment is taking you. There's always a structure, there's always a framework.

Speaker 2: 26:04

On our pregame show and our post game show, we don't have one script outside of some commercial billboard reads or any promos that I've got to read, that they want that copy to be right and you know I've got to get that. But for the most part I've got a page of notes Like I wouldn't even call it notes, but just bullet points of either a key stat or a point or a word that I want to mention. I find, again, everybody's different. I find that the less words I have written down or memorized, the better that I'm at, the better I'm at, and I'll see it especially early in the season where I'll look down. I do everything digitally on my iPad, but I'll look down and I'll have full sentences written out. I'm like what are?

Speaker 3: 26:47

you doing? That's not you.

Speaker 2: 26:48

But there's just, sometimes you get pulled into that and then you got to go back and trust your instincts and you're right, like, and I see it a lot, two people will say somebody will bring up, you know, whatever I'll go. Oh wait, you just brought up magic. I was going to ask that five questions later, so hold on, I'll get back to that. I got to go to this question next. Essentially is what?

Speaker 3: 27:11

they're saying, they're not saying, well, why don't you just go there?

Speaker 2: 27:14

now. You know the conversation took you there. Just go there now. Sometimes it doesn't work. Sometimes you've got like for me on my podcast. I have only three and you went through these. I only have three scripted questions and it was never my goal to have any.

Speaker 2: 27:30

And then what I realized was that I liked asking from that baseball standpoint, using the metaphor or, in this case, as an analogy I guess, what's the biggest homerun you've hit? No, it is metaphor what's the biggest homerun you've hit? What's the biggest swing and miss you've taken? And what is small ball, what are the little things?

Speaker 2: 27:45

So I knew I'd want to ask every guest. That led to a lot of great content. Content still does. But I also knew that it wasn't fair to ask them those questions if they hadn't thought about them, and it does nobody any good to have 30 seconds of trying to come up with an answer that we could at it out. But why not at least let them put a little thought into it? Otherwise, after that I usually do four final questions to round the bases and I jot down a couple of notes of things I'd like to do. But oftentimes those final questions end up popping into my head as the show is going on based on some of their answers, and so that's a kind of freeing thing. I think you give me all kinds of ideas right now.

Speaker 1: 28:20

So if I'm typing over here, it's because I'm learning from you. That's great, so okay. So now you're doing Kansas City Royals post game shows. You have a speaking business. You have a speaking business. Take me back a little bit, joel, like what first got you interested in broadcasting?

Speaker 2: 28:35

Yeah, you know the kind of fun story I'll tell, and I'll tell this to audiences too, and it's not incorrect. I just I mean, I can't piece together everything at a young age. This is what I remember and it's true. Is that somewhere in first or second grade and I say first or second because my first grade teacher grew up outside of Philadelphia in New Jersey before moving to Chicago when I was 13, our first grade teacher moved up with us to second grade.

Speaker 2: 29:05

So somewhere in that two year span, whether it was first or second grade, this teacher, mrs Dunwoody, who I remember very well because my parents over the years, like, became friends with her well beyond when we left and kept in touch with her and she was a sweet lady and she would complain to my parents that I was disrupting class at you know. So, seven or eight years old, giving everybody the updates of the scores and the games and the recaps from the night before. Now, let's keep in mind this is the 1980s. I mean not that a whole lot of first and second graders probably have phones coming into class, but you know this is pre-internet, pre-all of that stuff. You got your sports information either from watching the news or maybe a game. It's not like there were a hundred games on ESPN and this and that right, I mean there was, cable was still not that expansive. So I was disrupting class giving sports updates, basically as a seven and eight year old and so that I remember is the first signs of it.

Speaker 1: 30:07

And then I know, as a teenager, and your teacher had to deal with this for two years because she, I think of the teaching industry. They call it looping when you go from one grade, yeah, so she got two years of Joel Goldberg.

Speaker 2: 30:17

She got stuck with the Goldberg loop and I don't know when it was like I want to do that. I just know that I loved watching the local sports guy on the news back then and that I wanted to either be that or I wanted to be the play-by-play guy and as I got older and teenage years I used to sit there and watch games my parents' house or in a room and turn the volume down and pretend to be the announcer.

Speaker 2: 30:44

Which is why you tell people to practice now anyways, but that's what I was doing, and so I knew from. I don't remember ever wanting to do anything else, which is pretty cool.

Speaker 1: 30:52

Wow, that's awesome. So how does that grow then? Because I mean, we talk about possibilities on this podcast and for you, that was. It wasn't something that someone said Joel, I want you to go and start. You just you knew that you wanted to do it, and it makes me think of me with magic. I was like you can't stop me, right, and you don't have to tell me how. I'm just gonna find a way. How did that go into? Now I'm gonna be a professional sports broadcaster. What was the evolution like?

Speaker 2: 31:18

Well, I mean, I think the first thing I would say too and this applies to everyone is that you talk about possibilities. What exists today, or maybe I should say what could exist in 10 years, 20 years, five years, three years, I don't know what could exist then may not even exist now. So when you talk about possibilities, I'm not even sure that you need to see it, you just need to be open to it. Because I'll take you back to 1994, which is when I graduate from the University of Wisconsin in Madison, wisconsin, and I wanna be on TV. And really now my background and my path is to be on local television news, because my final two years at Wisconsin I got an internship with the NBC television station.

Speaker 2: 32:08

I think those internships were probably supposed to be a one month thing. They usually are. It's usually an unpaid. Get some credit so that we can justify, you know, the free labor. And when I say labor, I mean it's not like you're lifting a lot of heavy things or whatever. A lot of times you're sitting behind a television watching a game and writing down what time the key plays happen.

Speaker 3: 32:28

Labor so.

Speaker 2: 32:31

Yes, it's a grunt worker, but I don't know that they really if they were paying attention or they just liked me. But they had me do four semesters, so I had two years of working for this NBC television station.

Speaker 1: 32:43

It came back on you the looping thing. Now you're having a footer right.

Speaker 2: 32:46

Yeah and a good call. And I was able to really build some trust in relationships with the people that I was working for. These were some of my earliest influences. I wanted to be them. I wanted to be them when I was a kid, without knowing who they were. Now I meet these guys and now I'm trying to be them and ultimately I did. And so I graduate from Wisconsin in May of 94. I'm sending resume tapes all over the country and I joke now that nowadays the kids just send a YouTube link Much easier, right? Well, they got linked in and they got email and all this type of stuff. Well, guess what? So does everyone else.

Speaker 2: 33:27

So in the television world, if you're applying for a TV job and in 94, if you want to get on TV, you're going to a local news station and you're starting small. Most people get out of it because why would you want to make no money with that college degree and have to relocate to a small town? I knew that that was the only path and so there was never a second guessing of the first salary that was less than $15,000 a year. But I'm often running, I'm in TV. But let's say that you're applying for a television job and I just I make these numbers up. But let's say there's. Let's say there are 10,000 kids coming out of undergraduate and more grad school and all that too. But let's say there are 10,000 kids that want to get on TV in any given year and I don't know if it's 5,000 or 20,000, whatever it is, it's a lot of people. Let's say there's 10,000 kids getting out of college, 22-year-olds or whatever, that don't really know a whole lot of what they're doing, that want to get on TV, and of those 10,000, there might be 50 jobs out there if that, at any given moment, there might be 25, maybe 50. How are you going to be one of the 50 out of 10,000 to do this when nobody's really vac rate? They don't have a lot of experience, and so I got rejected everywhere that I went.

Speaker 2: 34:41

I was mailing out these tapes and I have a collection of rejection letters. They all sent rejection letters back and I got desperate and I started to make phone calls. Instead, I started cold calling, and I tell this because most people hate cold calling, myself included. But if you want it bad enough, you'll do whatever it takes. I was eyeballing going back to the local hot dog stand restaurant where I worked in Suburban Chicago and they, by the way, would have paid me about twice as much as I made in television to start to manage the restaurant. And I started calling. I remember it was my parents' landline. I had a script written out and it would be the same thing every time.

Speaker 1: 35:22

Speaking of scripts, right. This is where you developed your hate for scripts, right.

Speaker 2: 35:26

Yeah, but I also had no confidence of how to quote, unquote, wing it and how to think off the top of my head. That thought, even in television at that point was mortifying to me because I was too worried about my looking at the camera right and my standing right and my this and my that and my projector. There's so many millions. It's kind of like I'm not a golfer. Once twice a year it's kind of like a golf swing. Like how do I get done what I need to do when I'm thinking of a hundred things? So I didn't have that comfort level yet and so I'm reading off of the script.

Speaker 2: 35:55

I would call Devin the TV station there were no real websites yet and I would. The receptionist would answer and I'd say, hi, can you tell me who your news director is? Yes, it's Devin Henderson. Okay, thanks, click. 10 minutes later. It's like when you're younger and you wanted to call the girl and you're thinking, okay, when's the right time to do it? When can I call back? Oh, they didn't answer or just went over, not that you were over.

Speaker 1: 36:20

Yeah, I was going to say, not that you were overthinking, not at all. I hadn't been overthinker, so I can relate.

Speaker 2: 36:24

I would wait 10 minutes after I hung up on the receptionist and then call back again. Hi, can I speak with Devin Henderson?

Speaker 1: 36:30

Would you do it in a different voice? No, I thought about it, though, like your trick or treating, and you come back in a different costume.

Speaker 2: 36:35

Yeah, the whole thing is just preposterous. And so for the conversation then, reading from the script hi, I'm Joel Goldberg. I recently graduated from the University of Wisconsin. I understand you don't have a job opening right now, but I'm passing through town next week With Will Ferrell.

Speaker 1: 36:50

With Will Ferrell On the way to Branson, on the way to Branson To do the Bandjom show.

Speaker 2: 36:53

And neither of us are going to any of those places, but I'm on my way or passing through and would you be around on Tuesday, wednesday or Thursday because I'd love to hand deliver a tape and meet you. And all but one said yes and the one that said no said I can't guarantee I'm going to be there and I already found another TV station in that town, so I went anywhere and dropped it off.

Speaker 1: 37:14

So how many? Yes, like how many people were there?

Speaker 2: 37:16

Over 20.

Speaker 3: 37:17

Wow, that's a good, and I started driving all over the country, right.

Speaker 2: 37:20

Because, look, if you're them, you've probably been in my shoes at a certain point. Yeah, you hear from a million people and if someone's willing to take that extra step, what I mean I do this too now. I mean it's great to be able to give back and, who knows, maybe you actually end up with a lead. And what happened is that, instead of being see when you're, when you're applying for something and everybody else is applying, you have to hope that you make it to the front of the stack. You have to hope that they actually ever even see you. You don't know that they're going to look at you or not.

Speaker 2: 37:50

What I guaranteed was that when a job opening came up, I was going to be on the top of the line because they had met me, and it was the earliest lesson to me. I didn't even grasp it at the time, it just was instinctual. It was the earliest lesson to me that relationships matter, that relationships and building trust, which is what I speak about now, matter, because when you can get to know somebody, you've got a chance. If you don't get to know somebody, it's a complete shot in the dark, and that's what opened the door. And but going back to the original two. If you look at what I'm doing nowadays, I host a pre and a post game show, so it's over 300 shows a summer. You know we do close to 160 games If you were wondering why he's so polished.

Speaker 3: 38:30

now you know it's all debatable, it's all.

Speaker 2: 38:33

It's all matter of perspective too, and humble. Look at that. They may love you, they may hate you, but but pre game, post game show pretty much every day for six months straight, hosting a podcast. First off, none of those things existed. When I broke into television, there weren't pre and post game shows. You might have, like, a Sunday night wrap up show on the local news for sports. We might have a special high school football Friday show or something like that. There were no pre and post game shows. There were no sideline reporters. I'm also the in game reporter from the by the dugout with the Royals those roles there were three or four guys doing that on a national broadcast for college football, maybe your NFL, and that was it. So everything that I'm doing today was was really it manifested over time? None of it existed back then, and so that's the beauty of it. You jump in and then you let it go where it takes you.

Speaker 1: 39:26

Yeah, what I love about your story? First of all it reflects mine and my beginning and cold calling. Cause for me it was restaurants. I thought if I could just land a couple of restaurant gigs doing table side magic, that would pave the way, cause then it's like making connections, like the relationships factor. You're talking about hand out the business card, getting hired for private parties, getting hired for corporate events, but walking into the restaurants asking who the general manager was, you know, cause the phone thing didn't work for me at first they were like goodbye. So then I learned okay, you got to go in, you got to ask for the GM and then you've got to like be ready with your, with your script Right. For me it was like my script was to have a deck of cards on me and something that looked like a professional business card and to go in.

Speaker 1: 40:06

But what I really love about your story, you, you had a possibility mindset, because someone could have shut you down and been like Joel there's 20,000 students who want to do what you do. There's no way. Fine, find something else. But you said what else is possible? What if there is a way? What if I? What if I go and visit? You know, reach out to 20 people and and drive around the country and do this. And I mean, if you hadn't had a possibility, mindset, none of that would have ever happened.

Speaker 3: 40:31

You know, what's interesting too, is that.

Speaker 2: 40:33

I don't. I really have no idea or recollection if anybody told me to do that or if I just did it, but it's advice that I've given to every young broadcaster ever since. Most of the time I'll get a look like what language are you speaking?

Speaker 3: 40:51

And I'm like they're never going to do it, Like you want me to do what?

Speaker 2: 40:53

Like that's insane and I get it, but the odds are you're not going to make it in this business, Right? And I could tell the ones that that will do it. It's just. It's just different.

Speaker 2: 41:03

We're in a we're in a different age now, where everything is so instant and everything and everybody wants instant, I mean that's, that's what I, that's that's what I feel most concerned about for the younger generation and I I'm not an anti like where the younger generation is taking us is a great thing. What's gone on in the world and the change we've had post the pandemic, you know more freedom in the workplace, you know taking care of yourself, mental health, all of these types of things I think are are a positive step and it'll keep going in different directions. But my fear is just that with that, convenience becomes sometimes a lack of inability to to do face to face. And we don't have to do face to face all the time. But what ended up ultimately getting me in this business? And you could say, oh, you know, that's 30 years ago. I mean, the world has changed. But whether it's face to face or a connection on a zoom or whatever it is, how did you get in? You got in by going, getting face to face with those GMs. I got in by getting face to face with those news directors around the country.

Speaker 2: 42:12

And and what I tell anyone that asks me, especially if they're asking me early enough, I want to get into TV. I get this all the time. You know there's not a week that goes by, that, that someone isn't asking to to pick my brain on how to get on TV, which is incredibly humbling, that I've been doing this so long that somebody would want to know. And I say you, you need to keep doing anything and everything you can over and over again. By the way, this is a lesson for any business, that it's all about repetition, right? How are you so comfortable doing all the magic and getting on stage without getting nervous and freaked out? And all that because you've done it over and over and over again? Oh my gosh, devin Henderson look at how crazy all that stuff he does. It's not crazy to you, you know. It's crazy to everyone else. It's not crazy to you because you've done it over and over again. Oh my gosh, joel Goldberg gets in front of the television camera every time and he never looks nervous, and I don't always understand what the heck he's talking about, but but he seems really calm out there. Well, because I've done it thousands and thousands and thousands of time.

Speaker 2: 43:15

And so the two pieces of advice I give you know, young aspiring broadcasters, is do anything and everything you can over and over again, because everything you do is just experiences along the way in the journey. That's all it is. You'll never look back at any of them, or almost any of them, and say, hey, I remember that time when I. It's not even going to be a memory, but what it will do is build up muscle memory. It will make you more comfortable, it will allow you to fail. So that's the first piece.

Speaker 2: 43:40

And the second piece I think to me is that you're you're in the business of collecting people. Collect people every step of the way. You never know who that next person is that could be your boss or know your boss or be able to be your advocate. But the way you get them to advocate for you, the way that you get them to to be that person that can help you, is by understanding boundaries, reading the room. So you collect these people and then you be someone that they're willing to hear, that they're excited to hear from, which means you don't bother anyone too much.

Speaker 2: 44:12

You know the right time, when's the right time, when's the wrong time. And suddenly you know all these. Like I'll hear from a college kid hey, I'm broadcasting. You know our local blah blah blah games. I'm like great every time that the other school comes in. Meet their broadcaster, meet their, their media meet, meet, meet their coaches, meet everybody you can along the way, because you never know who that next person is. Might that might open a door for you, and so you're in control of that and how you go about it. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 44:42

So repetitions, relationships, that's it. Boom, that's it. I love it, man, I love it. So let's jump to the stage, because now you, now you speak about your experiences in a way that other people can say, oh wow, those are some good. That's some good life, wisdom, life hacks, mindset tools, whatever you call them, what. What do you speak about? How do you use your baseball analogy and your broadcast and experiences to help people live better lives?

Speaker 2: 45:08

Well, it all started with and I just kind of stumbled into this as a side hustle and then it became a main hustle and then it was like I think some people still think it's just this little side hustle. It's like it's one A, one B with my baseball schedule and so, you know, it's everything to me and I I thought when I started this someone had given me this suggestion. You know, I think you could be good at this. I'm like man, I'm spoken to rotary clubs. I don't know, like you know there's a difference. Right, you know, you go, you go speak to a rotary club, a church group, it's, you know, it's kind of community engagement.

Speaker 2: 45:40

You're giving an update on the team. Now somebody wants to pay you and the question, at least in my mind from day one, was if they're going to pay me, then what are they going to pay me to do? Like nobody's going to pay you, to give an update on how the Royals are going to do this year. Hey, thanks for coming out. What do you think the Royals are going to do this year? Well, I think they're going to win X amount of games. Great, here's a check. You know, it just doesn't. There's some entertainment Q&A.

Speaker 1: 46:07

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 46:07

What's the takeaway? What's the message? So I thought, you know, I watched the Royals go from one of the worst franchises in baseball to a championship and and they, yeah, they had good talent, but really what they they prodded themselves on was building a culture, a championship culture, and I thought, well, boy, that's relatable to any profession. So at first I started talking about championship culture, that small ball, big results. What are the little things that add up to the big results? And I had all these different topics.

Speaker 1: 46:38

And, by the way, for those of you that maybe aren't Kansas City savvy, they won the world championship back in 2015,. Right, it was when it had been since 85 when they won their 30 years, yeah.

Speaker 2: 46:49

There's so many cool stories with that. Again, I'm in my role, traveling with the team and doing all the interviews and the pre and post game show. I'm the fly on the wall. I'm the. I'm the fly on the wall that everybody wishes they could be, and so I always understand that in my role in TV, I get to share some of that. What I've found out is that I get to share a lot more of it when I'm not on TV. Instead of a 30 second or a one minute report, I've got close to an hour to handcraft this message to make people better, expand these stories, challenge them, get them thinking in a different way.

Speaker 1: 47:23

And with the World Series under the belt of the Royals, I mean you got a lot of leverage as a speaker Like you're coming, you know it helps.

Speaker 2: 47:29

Yeah, it helps, but you know, we're also now nine years from that, and so it's like but I also believe now you don't get as much attention that when a team and last year I covered a Kansas City Royals team that lost 106 games out of 62, tied for the most they'd ever lost, and I would say that there were a lot of lessons learned from that failure that I could also use to help people Along the way, and you remember this too, like in the early years, you're trying to figure out what's the message that resonates. Do I want to go here, here, here here, and eventually you find that sweet spot, and for me right now, it's trust. I think that the number one topic that I talked about in every culture speech was trust and just finally said you know what? Let's hone in on that, because there's not a story I tell that doesn't involve trust. Every story I tell involves trust and it's what I have to do every single day.

Speaker 2: 48:27

I think sometimes people assume that because I've done this so long that it's easy, right that I'm just living this world with all these athletes and I do. But I could throw that away tomorrow. I'm not a former player. Most of my fellow broadcasters played professionally. I never did anything like that. I just love to talk about it from all the way back in first and second grade, right. So I feel like I have to earn the respect of those players and the fans for that matter every single day that I'm there, and even in the off season if there are opportunities to touch base. So I have this lifetime of experience of building trust and getting results. In a way that's all storytelling based. I mean, I'm a storyteller to begin with. Now I get to bring it on stage and so I think you know, I do think we all like to be that fly on the wall. We all like a peak behind the curtain. You and I are sitting here in Kansas right now and we can do all kinds of fun things about the Wizard of Oz. Sometimes I feel like I'm the Wizard of Oz in the sense that I get to go places that no one gets to go. And now if I could take those experiences and shape them in a way that allows somebody to go back to their company and be better, especially in a day and age right now where we're not communicating and connecting the way we used to. The other thing to Devin is that as I get older and I joke that because of course we all get older, but every day that I'm in this game I keep getting older and the players keep getting younger, and that's not an exaggeration, because every player that I covered when I got into this game is retired and I'm still here, and guys that I covered that were just coming into their prime when the Royals won the World Series in 15. Salvador Perez is a great example.

Speaker 2: 50:19

This baseball season coming up, opening day, march 28th, will be my 14th season with Salvador Perez, the longest that I've ever been with any athlete. That's a long time. The chemistry and the connection that he and I have is better than anyone that I've ever covered. And this comes from a 51-year-old guy that grew up in the suburbs of Philadelphia in Chicago and a 33 or 34. He'll be 34,. He's April of 90,. I believe He'll be 34 in April. I believe May. I think he's May.

Speaker 2: 50:53

So a 34-year-old guy that grew up in a single parent household, raised by his mother and his grandmother in Venezuela, and the guy 17 years older you know that was graduating high school, as this guy was born in another country.

Speaker 2: 51:08

Like, we have nothing in common and yet the bond that he and I have is so good and I could throw that away tomorrow if I don't go about things the right way. And so I have this experience of being able to connect and earn the trust of athletes that nowadays are almost half my age. He's one of the older ones, salvador Perez, the guy that's now the upcoming superstar, the expected Patrick Mahomes in baseball of Kansas City a good friend now of Mahomes, bobby, with Junior, just signs a $289 million contract to be here long term, at least seven years. As many as 14, he's 23. And I'm 51. You know he's two years older than my oldest. If I can't connect with that younger generation and understand what makes them tick, I become irrelevant in this business. So there are a lot of lessons that play out in what I call the quote-unquote real world.

Speaker 1: 51:59

Yeah. So you've got several topics. We could go deep and it would take us hours for me to ask all my questions about trust. How do you develop trust? How do you keep that relationship going for so long? We don't have time for all those questions. But also, you mentioned failure. I mean you have all these different topics, right, and so what do you say to the meeting planner when they you know, I know you have a manager, charlotte, who's amazing and when they say, hey, what's Joel going to teach our people? We've looked at his website. We just need to give us a synopsis. What are they going to go do differently because they had Joel speak?

Speaker 2: 52:29

And I think again, it does all start with trust. I mean baseball, sport of failure, great teaching, all that type of stuff but how to better connect with the people internally and externally within their worlds, and how to do it quickly, but, more importantly, how to do it over the long term and how to sustain it. Because in the end, I'm not in the baseball business any more than you were in the magic business. Right, we're in the people business. Yeah, that's it. That's it. I just happen to be living in this world of being in the people business, with some people that are doing freakish things that most of us don't do, and I get the free pass to be in there, no different than you living in that magic world. Not a whole lot of people understand that. So you, as a speaker, can go and say, hey, I'm going to do all this cool magic stuff, and I can go in there and say I'm going to tell you the coolest baseball story is great, awesome, we'll laugh and we'll have fun. But what are the takeaways? And when you have a takeaway to me, that's where you find that success To me, if I can go in there in front of an audience and explain to them why I failed to connect with Albert Pujols, probably the greatest player that I've covered in my lifetime and one of the greatest hitters in the history of Major League Baseball talking about 150 years worth of history and a guy who's in the same sentence in terms of production with Babe Ruth, and it took me seven years to earn his trust.

Speaker 2: 53:53

If I had to do it again, I think I probably could have done it in one or two years with him. But if I can connect with a guy again, from a different culture, a different background, that was the biggest star in the game, that was very leery and not trusting of others. Impossible to connect with A guy that I despised for a lot of years because I didn't understand why he wouldn't talk to me, to then get to the point where he would do anything that I asked of him. I mean, the line that Albert Pujols gave me was, in the end, was there are a lot of people that pull me in a lot of different directions. There are a lot of people that want something from me. Once I trust you, I'll do anything for you. So to me, the pitch to those event planners is that we all deal with rejection. I know how to make that connection. I know how to teach them how to build that trust.

Speaker 1: 54:44

Nice. What I'm getting is that if you're a company and organization who's looking for a speaker, you didn't ask me to pitch a commercial, but what I'm hearing is that After you've hired, devin Well. I mean, if you want to build a strong culture of trust and be able to build trust immediately with maybe new hires or new clients, new partners, and also be able to just develop that factor of trust over the long haul so that we're breaking down silos where there's more cohesiveness who doesn't want this in their company? From a fun baseball type perspective that's not a baseball speech you can help organizations achieve that so they can achieve better results and hit a bigger bottom line together. I mean, it trickles all the way down right, that's it.

Speaker 3: 55:26

So get this guy while he's available, I'm taking Devin on the road with me.

Speaker 1: 55:31

As we start to wrap up, just two questions I want to throw back to you from your podcast, if you'll let me do this, which I know you give your guest time to think about, just your biggest strikeout and your biggest home run, because you mentioned failure, so I'd love to just hear more about how your failure, what you've learned from that.

Speaker 2: 55:48

So I've thought about this a lot and of course most of my guests say some version of this too, with the swig and mist. I've swung and mist a million times and so I can go in a lot of directions. I just told you the Albert Pujol story. I think that that's probably my biggest, because I for the better part of seven years I had nothing with the guy. I mean maybe one out of every 10 times he might say yes, but I mean I held my breath and my chest was pounding, heart pounding, waiting for that rejection every single time, and in the end it made me better. I don't know if I'd be further along than I was. I mean it felt awfully sweet once I moved on to Kansas City and he moved on to Anaheim for $300 million or whatever he got, and to be able to get the one-on-one interview and have people say, boy, how did you get that, how are you getting this exclusive interview? And so it gave me a lot of credibility.

Speaker 2: 56:53

But I think for me what I learned from that swing and miss with with Albert is that we often misunderstand others Along the way, especially when they don't give you what you want or you know they keep you from getting to what you want. It's very easy to either not like someone or wonder why they're being this or this or this or this or this. And what I learned was that for an Albert Poole's All right guy that hit over 700 home runs you know we're talking Babe Ruth, hank Aaron territory here he's one of only four that ever hit 700 home runs that we can't possibly know what it's like to walk in someone else's shoes. But when you make a little bit of an attempt to understand their life a little bit better, when you make a little bit of an attempt to go deeper than where you're trying to go instead of it being about you and I want to get here Can you? Can you understand what they're going through? Can you understand that they're going home to Family issues just like the rest of us, and a sick child or you know, maybe a fight with a wife, or you know, a sick mother or whatever?

Speaker 2: 58:00

It might be right that just because their name might be will Ferrell or just because their name might be Albert Poole's Doesn't mean they're immune to the challenges of life. Mm-hmm, just because they have all the money in the world, just because they could hit a ball faster and harder than anyone else, and I think once you understand that you can go anywhere if you go about things the right way. And no one ever taught me that. There were no classes on this, and so you know. They taught us how to set up cameras and lights, like Zach did for us here, and and at one point I knew how to do that better than I do it now, but you know they taught us.

Speaker 1: 58:39

I notice you didn't help at all. You just kind of stood and watched, yeah, like I did Zach's, like really guys, it's all me listen.

Speaker 2: 58:45

I used to have to do all this stuff, and it's not that it's beneath me in any way, I just I think I've had enough. You know, photographers and engineers and all that that have said to me not leave right, don't touch it.

Speaker 2: 58:57

Just don't, please. Okay, fine, I understand. So I, you know, I wish From that swing and miss and a lot of swings and misses, over and over and over and over and over again. You know what they say, like it learned from your mistakes. Well, I wasn't learning anything, I All right, the guy doesn't like me? Well, I don't like him. This, it's a pain covering a superstar that won't give you the time of day, and it never dawned on me that it was potentially my fault that I didn't know how to make that connection. So the lesson learned is before you put someone on a pedestal, it's very easy to put people on a pedestal.

Speaker 2: 59:34

They don't have to be an Albert Pujols level I, the comparison game that you talked about I could put you on a pedestal because, oh my gosh, I can't do it. Devon's doing on stage why would anybody hire me when he could do everything that he's? He's juggling and doing all these magic tricks and his energy is off the charts. I'm never gonna be that. How am I gonna do that? Instead of putting you on a pedestal, instead of putting Albert on a pedestal, how about getting to know them a little bit better? And then, suddenly, you reap the rewards of that relationship?

Speaker 1: 1:00:00

Yeah, ah, man, that's so great it, as you were talking to me, to think just love you know Like like love covers over a multitude of sins, I mean, and it's whoever sins that aren't.

Speaker 1: 1:00:11

And I think that's part of what can build trust. You can build people's trust right if you're Showing them. Hey, I'm gonna give you grace. If you drop the ball, I'm not gonna blame you, I'm not gonna gossip about you. I'm gonna come to you directly with any kind of problems. Let's work on this relationship. You know, I so, I so. You said you kind of didn't learn at the time, but at the end, as you look back, you learned a huge lesson, no question.

Speaker 1: 1:00:30

And so that's that's the beauty of it the and the beauty of it.

Speaker 2: 1:00:33

I mean I wish I'd figured it out sooner, but I think I learned more by not figuring it out soon.

Speaker 1: 1:00:38

Wow, man, that's deep, that's crazy like. But the delayed lesson had value. Third right, that's crazy.

Speaker 3: 1:00:46

There's.

Speaker 2: 1:00:47

Honest, I don't know if I could find this or not. I wrote down a quote. I'm a quote guy and that's one of the beauties of sports too, is that oftentimes you, you see those quotes come up During, you know, just during a tough moment in in in sports. And it was the I'm doing the good old stall here, as I love it, man. This would just be like.

Speaker 1: 1:01:12

I'll put in music and you know. But yeah, that's like what the Jeopardy theme song.

Speaker 2: 1:01:18

No, I've got so. When the when the chiefs beat the Baltimore Ravens in the AFC championship, I heard John Harbaugh say afterwards you never know what lessons you'll learn from the experiences you have, and so my challenge on that would just be Look for those lessons right. Understand that in the heartbreak of failure that's something good will come of it, and you may learn it later. But if you're really observing in the moment, you might see what that is and it becomes very powerful.

Speaker 1: 1:01:44

I mean, you ask what else is pop? This is a hard situation. My career is now Effected because of in a negative way, but it's what else is possible? What if this is growing me in some way? You know that's the great thing about always thinking possibilities, so awesome. So your home runs are honestly in a lot of your lessons that you've learned. But is there one home run you want to share? With us we haven't gotten a glimpse of yet.

Speaker 2: 1:02:04

You know what I think it is and because it's very easy, I think like the home run question for me and for you, like the home run question could be something like what's the greatest magic trick you've ever done? Right, I'm sure I asked you something?

Speaker 2: 1:02:16

like that and what's the greatest interview you've ever done? And the greatest game, the greatest, this great. And those are fun, but I think for me, it was starting this speaking business and the reason why I say that is so. I came to Kansas City from St Louis in 2008 and it was the first time that I was a non-salary employee, basically meaning I'm gonna come here, have more responsibility, I'm gonna be on every game, travel with the team, I'm gonna make the money that I did in my last place over six months. You don't have the benefits and all that. I'm a freelance. Essentially, you got six months to do whatever you want, and I didn't Find that what I wanted.

Speaker 2: 1:02:52

I was doing random games. You know a college game here, a high school game there, and it was something to get off the couch. And I bumped into some friends and they said what are you up to? I'm, you know, just a game here and I'm speaking to some golf course management association Next week. Oh, do you do a lot of that? Not really. I mean Not usually.

Speaker 2: 1:03:12

And I said, well, you could start a business and you can. You can do well with that. You know, you know how to speak and all that I didn't know such a thing as this world, your world, exists. I Thought a speaker was like Tony Robbins and we'd all love to do that too, but yeah, not everybody could be Michael Jordan, and so, you know, the rest of us can live a really good life in this pro world and and, and and do well and make an impact and and take care of our families. And so I I called the home run because what it did for me, devin, was that I'd never been in business for myself, I'd never been an entrepreneur Okay, I'm a freelance TV guy that here the games you're working, that it's not like running a business. So, yeah, I started to learn how to run a business and started the podcast and wrote the book and all these type of things, and suddenly it's this tiny little media company, if we want to call it that.

Speaker 2: 1:04:01

But what I figured out in starting this in late 2016, which then turned into 2017 baseball season Was that I was going to work, meaning Kaufman Stadium or around the country, to baseball games every single day, with a different perspective. It made me a better reporter, because I started going Selfishly and saying what can I learn today? Who can I talk to today that Can give me something to bring to an audience on stage. What can I learn today that I could share to make others better? That enabled me at a time I've been doing this for a while now to sharpen my skills, to look at things differently, to be more curious, all the things that I needed To do to be a good reporter. That I was doing fine, but it's certain it started to push me into deeper ways and and digging a little bit deeper and building stronger Relationships it just it made me a better Television broadcaster. That wasn't the intent, hmm, but in trying to help others it just it made me more focused and the two kind of play off each other right now.

Speaker 1: 1:05:05

That's crazy, yeah, that there was like this rest of prosody between what you brought to the stage and then what the stage brought to life even for you. You know, and made you better, because now you're more hyper aware of Sharing. Now am I doing that right? Am I walking the talk?

Speaker 2: 1:05:19

And look the bulk of what I find out every single day. It's a long season, two to three stories every single day, times 160, and the bulk of them will never make the stage most of them all, but it just I. It forced me to Dig deeper and that makes for better broadcast. That makes for better information for my television audience. The television audience isn't all that different than our audience on stage. The difference is the television audience is a little bit more entertainment and they want to be updated on their team and Get some fun stories. And then the the you know stage audience is more about what can I take back to work to be better? What can I take back to my life to be better? But in the end you're affecting people's lives.

Speaker 1: 1:06:02

Yeah, what I love to, I think about, like any anyone who's listening, you know, whatever position you're in of leadership, of influence. I think of parenting. When I'm telling my kids to behave back to a certain way, I'm like, well, now I've got to do that right, because they're gonna. It's that old saying that they're not gonna do what you say, they're gonna do what you do, and so I love how that that comes back on us and I think that, to your point, devin, we all have the chance to do that.

Speaker 2: 1:06:29

So, you know, I like to encourage people to to say, like you don't have to be a great magician, you don't have to be a sports personality in front of a television camera that gets to go into these locker rooms. Everything that you talk about and I talk about, anybody can do. And I talk about being curious, I talk about wanting to know people's stories and seeing how they could help with others. Well, you can walk around your office, wherever you're at, and get to know people better on a deeper level, and it's gonna make you certainly better in building that trust and you may learn things that you could share with others and mentor and on and on. I mean it's the gift that never stops giving if you're paying attention. So this is not just a how to be a better broadcaster or how to. It applies to any walk of life.

Speaker 1: 1:07:14

Yeah, that's great, joel, thanks for coming on today. Really appreciate this, I know. I know you all have gotten something out of that From the from the second we started to the second we stopped.

Speaker 3: 1:07:23

So appreciate you, man. Thank you, devin. Thanks for having me on, thanks for the breakfast tacos.

Speaker 2: 1:07:28

Absolutely Shout out to etc. Here. Yeah, and I appreciate it, thank you.

Speaker 1: 1:07:31

It'd be fun to do it again sometime too, man. Always happy to do it Awesome. Well, hey everybody, joel Goldberg, remember to go to YouTube to get the full experience. One thing you can help us to on Apple or Spotify, you know, give us that five star rating. If it's genuine, give us a comment. That'll help us spread this message to more people. And so Did I say thanks to etc. Again, yet Did I say that?

Speaker 3: 1:07:53

I mean you did you did.

Speaker 1: 1:07:54

There you go. Joel said it Well, thank you, etc. Shiny, we really appreciate it, thanks to our new producer, zach, who is just crushing it right now. So this is gonna be the best-looking podcast, yet we're gonna end it with, just like the question you ask when you embrace a possibility mindset, which is what else is possible. So I'll say what else you'll say is possible. You're ready. Yes, I got it cuz, you're a script guy you need it All right. So remember to never stop asking the question what else is?

Speaker 3: 1:08:24

possible.

Speaker 1: 1:08:25

See you next time. Hey, sorry, afterthought, ps. Right, um, go to. He didn't tell me to do this, I was like Joe, I forgot to mention your website. So, joel Goldberg media Com to connect with Joel and especially to book him as a speaker. Joel Goldberg media calm, we'll put it in the show notes and that's it. See you next time.